Another adjustment ...

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Clo
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Another adjustment ...

#1 Post by Clo »

Hi all,

yesterday I had another adjustment. For a month I had elastics that should
have done 2 things : close my bite and improve the overjet. They did not do
any of those two things. I started a conversation with my ortho. She said my
overjet is quite bad. Certainly a premolar width my whole upper arch needs to
be moved backwards. I asked if she was sure this was the good way of dealing
with this. I said, look at my profile, I think the balance of my upper teeth, lips
and nose is now good. I think the reason of the overjet is to be searched in
the lower jaw. That one should be more forward. Saying that to an university
professor surrounded by some of her students. After some time she admitted I
was totally right. Then, she said, we have to alter the whole treatment plan.
My blood started to boil. C'mon, after all my previous treatments, one would
expect now a decent plan and then stick to that. My treatment is once more
built on sand, slowly sinking away as nor the overjet, nor the open bite seems
to improve. I remained calm and asked if it is possible to tackle the open bite
first and then see how much overjet there is and then try to correct that. That
would be possible, but probably would end in a BSSO after all. But the wisdom
teeth need to go anyway, she said. First they needed to be extracted because
this would be necessary to move the upper arch backwards. Now they should
be extracted because it would be too difficult to intrude all these upper molars
to close my bite. Is there still anyone following ? Anyway, she made some
multiloop archwire to close the open bite. Now I need to do some study about
multiloop archwires. Because I think, and feel this archwire is only extruding
my front teeth. And that is not good. I do not need that and it is not stable
also.
So, the basis of my treatment is wrong, and the treatment now is ... wrong ...
I fear. Beside that, I feel great. Uhummmm. No, I do not feel right. Because
I asked to look at the left bone anchor while "she was in there". I feel pain all
the time and just know something is wrong. Yes, she said, it is very inflamed.
Me heading to the department where they did the surgery. Needed to wait for
almost 3 hours before someone could look at this. Not the surgeon who placed
the anchors. Not good they said. We will make an X-ray. And again, not good.
Probably the left bone anchor is coming loose. The surgeon herself would call
today if the situation could improve by itself. She did not phone, so probably I
will need surgery again to remove and replace this bone anchor. Oh yes, it was
once more a great adjustment. Anyway, this is the result of all that :

Image

Image

Now, if anyone would be able to say why these molars would intrude and by
doing that close my bite, please tell me. The elastic there is only as decoration,
I fear. It is so loose it can't work at all.

smile2006
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:59 am
Location: SC

#2 Post by smile2006 »

Hey Clo- Sorry to hear of your latest dissapointments. If you end up at the surgery option, I'm confident you will have a good result. I'm almost there. My open bite was as bad as your but surgery did the trick. Monday I should be free of these things! My ortho removed the wire to make sure things would stay put before removing the brackets.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee30 ... 507001.jpg

Lisa65
Posts: 3469
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:12 pm

#3 Post by Lisa65 »

Clo, there's an article on the use of multiloop wires to correct open bites here.

http://www.angle.org/pdfserv/i0003-3219-057-04-0290.pdf

Sorry to hear things are still not proceeding to plan. Well done for speaking up to your ortho though. It can't have been easy x

Clo
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#4 Post by Clo »

Thanks Lisa65 and smile2006.

Thanks for this article that describes the use of MEAW. I'll need to read it thoroughly,
but in some other article I found that this archwire closes an open bite by moving the
front teeth. And that is, I think, the problem. I do not need movement (extruding) of
the front teeth. I need intrusion of the back teeth. And that can't be done using such
an archwire. Anyway, I mailed about this and some other things to my ortho. A very
long mail it became. I hope it can be the start of a better treatment.

Finally, I can see your teeth, smile2006. And what I see is ... absolute awesome. You
have a great smile and very very nice teeth. It proves once more, I think, that only
in the US, they can achieve such remarkable results. Probably biased here, and some
will not like me saying this, but I mean it. Your surgeon and orthodontist both did a
fabulous job !

smile2006
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:59 am
Location: SC

#5 Post by smile2006 »

Clo-

What strikes me in comparing our cases is that really impaction of my molars took place in two ways to close the bite, first with the upper jaw surgery and then through orthodontics. Using many bends in the upper wire) my upper molars with the exception of the last one on the right which was floating after surgery, were futhur impacted. I didn't realize how small molars should be in your mouth because mine were always so far out the the gums.

You and I are dealing with tricky problems. I can't beleive the change but it has taken forever to get here on my end as well. My teeth aren't the movie star perfect I guess everyone hopes for but I'm 42 and this is the best they have been in my lifetime so you just take it and move. In your case, I am just so sorry you seem to be going through complicated procedures with no result. Surgery might be the way to get where you need to be but I wonder who you could trust to do it there???????

Clo
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#6 Post by Clo »

Thanks.

Spot on, smile2006. I told it here before. Before my first treatment, I did not have
such a bad open bite. It was created somehow. Then one would expect this to be
"un-created". But most importantly, and you are so right about this, I do not trust
them enough to do this. When I compare what they already did and said, when I
saw the surgeon, to what I read here all the time, then it would be wise I think to
not go that route.

Thanks KK. I did send a rather big mail to my ortho so she can read this
when she isn't so busy. My idea it was. Now if only she would reply, things could
work out.

It is so difficult to combine these 2 things. She being an university professor and
leading the orthodontic department, and me being so convinced that what she does
right now is so wrong. One example. Look at the second pic that I posted. I found
on the net how they can intrude teeth. Using springs that exert a force of 200 to
500 g per side. Together a force of almost 1 kilo ! That needs to be continued all the
time for at least 6 months. And then one gets an intrusion of about 3 mm, about
what I need. And what do I have ? Some elastics that are almost not stretched, and
so I am sure do not work at all. I tried to find the right words to tell her that. Or she
will tell me I am right. Or maybe I already do not have an ortho anymore ...

Andantae
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 6:26 pm
Location: Outside Minneapolis

#7 Post by Andantae »

Hi Clo~

I have read many of your posts, and I am always impressed by how well informed you are on so many brace topics. After reading your last post, I can see why you must feel the need to do your own research and your incentive to be well informed!

I can understand that your ortho needs to alter your whole treatment plan if you are looking toward a BSSO, however I cannot understand how the need for it wasn't diagnosed much sooner. How frustrating for you.

Hope the surgeon calls soon!

Andi
Braced 5-30-07 for 18-24 months
In-Ovation Uppers, Metal Lowers, TPA upper arch, Lower Lingual arch, no elastics.
100% Deep Bite, Crowding, Over Extrusion
BSSO & Genio surgery June 4th '08!


Image

"Truth is a bully we all pretend to like." Gregory David Roberts -SHANTARAM

Clo
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#8 Post by Clo »

Thanks Andi !

I try to be well informed. It is caused by (a) me being an engineer and having an
interest in this technology, (b) having now my third treatment after 2 failures and
by doing so having build up some experience and (c) this wonderful thing called the
internet that makes it possible to do some study on my own. It really helps. There
was once a conversation between my second ortho and an oral surgeon, and he did
say to this surgeon that I was not the average patient. That I knew more about
orthodontics than a lot of general dentists. It was nice to hear. And of course there
is this fabulous site ! Reading about cases with some similarities helps too.

Yes, I envy sometimes members here who get after a first consult a detailed plan
that reveals what can be done, what advantages or disadvantages each option has
and so on. I never had such a plan, they just started. And I then hoped they did it
right. And already 2 times I then, after some time, saw this couldn't be right and
needed to ... interfere. Now, I have this third treatment and need to interfere again.
It is indeed frustrating.

smile2006
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:59 am
Location: SC

#9 Post by smile2006 »

Clo- What type of engineering do you specialize in? It's a great field in the US!!!! Come on over......someone here could hook you up with a good oral surgeon/ortho too :D

Clo
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#10 Post by Clo »

Hi smile2006 with the great smile now in 2007 too and many years to come !

Electronics it is. But after these studies, I started my own company. I produce
multimedia presentations for companies, rather technical ones, B2B. But I have
some other ideas up my sleeve also. So, there is ... potential, I think. Seriously,
there was a time I really thought about moving to the US. Now, this lessened a
bit, but the idea is not dead ... yet.

smile2006
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:59 am
Location: SC

#11 Post by smile2006 »

Wow that line of work sounds very interesting. It also explains how you get such good crystal clear pictures all the time. Seriously, your pictures are awesome in terms of quality. As usual, keep us posted on your situation. I'll continue to look at this message board and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!!!

Clo
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#12 Post by Clo »

Thanks !

I admit though it is not always easy to make a good pic, "so far inside". Probably
looks pretty ridiculous too sometimes. But being able to take pics now digitally
has this great advantage that I can keep trying until I get a good one. Now, if
only I could take pics of a better bite, I would be totally happy ... Of course, I will
keep posting. Until they tell me here my story gets a bit too boring. It just keeps
going on and is getting very long.

Andantae
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 6:26 pm
Location: Outside Minneapolis

#13 Post by Andantae »

Hey Clo~

How are you doing?

Questions for you....Have you heard from the surgeon? How about a response to your letter from your ortho? What other options are there for treatment in/near Belgium? Are you considering BSSO?

Electronics Engineer! Very cool. I thought there was some heavy left-brained analysis going on! (My husband is an engineer)

Never too late to come to the US! Corporate US loves a High Tech image...You'd certainly have a market :D

Andi
Braced 5-30-07 for 18-24 months
In-Ovation Uppers, Metal Lowers, TPA upper arch, Lower Lingual arch, no elastics.
100% Deep Bite, Crowding, Over Extrusion
BSSO & Genio surgery June 4th '08!


Image

"Truth is a bully we all pretend to like." Gregory David Roberts -SHANTARAM

Clo
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#14 Post by Clo »

Hi !

Thanks for being interested in my case. Yes, I finally did get an email back from my
ortho. I see her coming Thursday. I hope to have a serious talk there. I mailed her
about what is going wrong, in the rather technical way I talk, you know me. I needed
to do this, but at the same time feared she would not accept me talking like this. I
mean, I am just a patient, well informed, but just a patient. Well, she admitted what
I wrote was a basis for her to study. This weekend, she wanted to do this. So I hope
we can have a good talk next Thursday.

I need to go to the surgeon who placed the bone anchors also that day. I hope I do
not need to have another surgery. But the area is still far from ok. It does not look
very promising.

I know I normally would need a jaw surgery, to create a good bite. They would need
to reposition my upper jaw to close the open bite and do a BSSO to correct this bad
overjet I have now. I have seen cases on the net and here that, when compared to
my bite, looked better than mine, and still were corrected by means of a surgery. I
saw 2 oral surgeons who told me they could do this. But my ortho is convinced it can
be corrected also just orthodontically. You have to know this is my third treatment.
In the beginning, I did not have an open bite. I did have a bad treatment, and as a
result, now I have this open bite and overjet. The second ortho tried to correct this,
but admitted it failed. Oh dear, it is such a long history already. If you want, you can
do a search here, and type in "clo" for "Search for Author:". All those threads started
by me in the Metal Mouth Forum are about my experiences. Plenty of them with a lot
of pics.

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