It seems that Paul Fussell is a Professor Emeritus of English Literature at U Penn.
I rest my case.
Ever felt crooked teeth held you back in life (pre-braces)?
Moderator: bbsadmin
I can relate to the OP. Before getting braces I was really self-conscious about my smile. I have been teased about my teeth, and have overheard guys say that I had "f&cked up teeth." We all know people are judged by their appearance, initially. I've never seen anybody in the professional world (or any rich people for that matter) with missing or severely jacked up teeth and I'm CERTAIN that is no coincidence.
You guys are taking this thread way too seriously. Nobody is trying to "prove" anything. It's simply a matter of opinion, it's not that deep. I don't live or do business in Fiji nor Zimbabwe so of course I wouldn't be able to speak about what they do there. NOBODY said that it's IMPOSSIBLE to get ahead in life w/ jacked up teeth. Everyone has their own experiences and perspectives so yous isn't more "right" or "factual" than anyone else's. 
Meryaten wrote:I've never seen anybody in the professional world (or any rich people for that matter) with missing or severely jacked up teethIf someone can't even manage to look upthread, it's doubtful they'll look as far afield as Fiji.did anyone bother to tell this chap that with teeth like his, he'd never have the self-confidence to go far?
(Hint: he's CEO of Exxon)
This is subjective. I wouldn't consider this guy's teeth severely jacked up. And apparently he has all of his teeth. Sorry for not reading 8 pages of a freaking thread, and traveling all around the world to look at others' teeth before stating my OPINION on the matter, geez.
Some of you guys REALLY should get over yourselves.
No, it doesn't. I read the opening post and opined on that. This is not a debate about science or whether or not the sky is blue (things that aren't particularly subjective). I don't have to read 8 pages of other people's opinions to form my own. Also, 8 pages of other people's opinions does not change the fact that I have yet to see anyone business with missing or severely jacked up teeth. This topic is pretty subjective and for you to assert your opinion as fact is very condescending. Whether or not bad teeth is a hindrance is a matter of one's perspective - nothing more.
Of course, if you can't be bothered even to read the thread, that just demonstrates that what you have is an uninformed opinion.
The fact of the matter is that one could point out examples of high school dropouts who've become successful later in life and say "HA! -- this proves that a high school diploma is unnecessary. That is a fact." But I'm sure many people would disagree with that.
Well even though I have resisted quite a lot but I must add something here:
IF a person gets braces for PURELY cosmetic reasons, will they feel better about themselves and have more confidence in themselves after their teeth are straight? YES - absolutely
I agree with some posters that looks is NOT the only thing in the world (infact there are probably more fat people with crooked teeth who are more successful than good looking ones) but if a person feels they can somehow better themselves by getting straight teeth why not? A person throughout his/her life must try to be the best they are and if someone feels that their teeth are holding them back then I dont understand why other people can say otherwise! (Someone went as far as suggesting they may need some other sort of physician instead of an orthodontist)
If you read through the threads there is an overwhelming majority that agree with the OP in some respect and there is a LOUD minority that not only state their opinions but also in an indirect way put down the OP and others. I actually have had this same discussion before and that thread was also 'hijacked' by a minority (here is the link if someone has some free time: viewtopic.php?t=12210&highlight=truejaat)
In conclusion, I can state my experience with braces - before getting them, it wasnt like I was an unsocial person on the contrary I had lots of friends, was dating a lot, had a great job etc. but there was always the issue of teeth which made me uncomfortable - 99% of the time it wouldnt bother me at all as no-one really cared but then there were those times when someone would make a comment or I would feel embarrassed while smiling in public as I have a lot of overcrowding and most of the people would look at my teeth straight-away when I smiled. I am about to get them off in about 2 months time (hopefully) and I cant tell you how happy I am and have been for the last year or so. It hasn't changed my life completely but it has given me so much more confidence to the extent that I am now at a senior management position in the company which I maybe would have felt uncomfortable about 3 yrs ago as it involves public speaking and social situations where smiling is a necessity (Please note: I am not saying I got the position purely because of getting my teeth straightened - I probably would have got it otherwise as well but now I personally dont feel uncomfortable doing that role whereas previously I would have). Since I have just been feeling really confident about myself that reflects in my attitude everywhere else.
PLEASE dont rip my post apart by quoting line by line - I know there are people who disagree with me and I already know their opinions so they dont need to re-assert themselves.
AND these are just my OPINIONS - I am not saying they are correct, simply stating them.
PS: I personally feel the difference in opinion is due to a generation gap (I think one poster already pointed it out earlier)
IF a person gets braces for PURELY cosmetic reasons, will they feel better about themselves and have more confidence in themselves after their teeth are straight? YES - absolutely
I agree with some posters that looks is NOT the only thing in the world (infact there are probably more fat people with crooked teeth who are more successful than good looking ones) but if a person feels they can somehow better themselves by getting straight teeth why not? A person throughout his/her life must try to be the best they are and if someone feels that their teeth are holding them back then I dont understand why other people can say otherwise! (Someone went as far as suggesting they may need some other sort of physician instead of an orthodontist)
If you read through the threads there is an overwhelming majority that agree with the OP in some respect and there is a LOUD minority that not only state their opinions but also in an indirect way put down the OP and others. I actually have had this same discussion before and that thread was also 'hijacked' by a minority (here is the link if someone has some free time: viewtopic.php?t=12210&highlight=truejaat)
In conclusion, I can state my experience with braces - before getting them, it wasnt like I was an unsocial person on the contrary I had lots of friends, was dating a lot, had a great job etc. but there was always the issue of teeth which made me uncomfortable - 99% of the time it wouldnt bother me at all as no-one really cared but then there were those times when someone would make a comment or I would feel embarrassed while smiling in public as I have a lot of overcrowding and most of the people would look at my teeth straight-away when I smiled. I am about to get them off in about 2 months time (hopefully) and I cant tell you how happy I am and have been for the last year or so. It hasn't changed my life completely but it has given me so much more confidence to the extent that I am now at a senior management position in the company which I maybe would have felt uncomfortable about 3 yrs ago as it involves public speaking and social situations where smiling is a necessity (Please note: I am not saying I got the position purely because of getting my teeth straightened - I probably would have got it otherwise as well but now I personally dont feel uncomfortable doing that role whereas previously I would have). Since I have just been feeling really confident about myself that reflects in my attitude everywhere else.
PLEASE dont rip my post apart by quoting line by line - I know there are people who disagree with me and I already know their opinions so they dont need to re-assert themselves.
AND these are just my OPINIONS - I am not saying they are correct, simply stating them.
PS: I personally feel the difference in opinion is due to a generation gap (I think one poster already pointed it out earlier)
The future depends on what we do in the present.
I'm glad that orthodontics will have been a positive experience for you, true_jaat.
The OP suggested that "not having a perfect smile" could "EXTREMELY" limit one's dating options, financial standing, success, etc. She even seemed to think that having braces could change the perceptions of others of an individual's social class.
The optimist in me likes to think that there are plenty 20 and 30 somethings out there who do not agree with this proposition.
While I am an older poster, I think the difference in opinion is more to do with how the "issue" has been conceptualised, rather than the age of posters.PS: I personally feel the difference in opinion is due to a generation gap (I think one poster already pointed it out earlier)
The OP suggested that "not having a perfect smile" could "EXTREMELY" limit one's dating options, financial standing, success, etc. She even seemed to think that having braces could change the perceptions of others of an individual's social class.
The optimist in me likes to think that there are plenty 20 and 30 somethings out there who do not agree with this proposition.
i personally am held back by my appearance (which is caused by my odd looking lower jaw)... ppl may say u let the problem get on top of u but the fact is we live among ppl and we've got to assimilate their opinions one way or other.. i regret not taking the step to orthodontics when i went for consult at 18, partly due to $$ issues as tat time i was still a student..
The problem is that the OP stated their own opinion, asked for other peoples' opinions, but also stated their own opinion as fact in relation to teeth and social class. I don't imagine anyone here would argue that someone's opinion was wrong, but many people will dispute a personal opinion which is stated as a point of fact. I think that's what you've seen. Any aggression or lack of friendly tone merely reflects the way in which the original points were stated.true_jaat wrote:If you read through the threads there is an overwhelming majority that agree with the OP in some respect and there is a LOUD minority that not only state their opinions but also in an indirect way put down the OP and others. ..
PLEASE dont rip my post apart by quoting line by line - I know there are people who disagree with me and I already know their opinions so they dont need to re-assert themselves.
AND these are just my OPINIONS - I am not saying they are correct, simply stating them.
PS: I personally feel the difference in opinion is due to a generation gap (I think one poster already pointed it out earlier)
I disagree with the age gap theory, and agree with whoever said it was geographical. I'm British, and we're an International source of mirth because of our terrible teeth. It's not even en exaggeration - we do have bad teeth.. but if we cared, don't you think we'd be doing something about it on a much bigger scale? Anyone here can get braces free of charge as a child/teen, so it's not an issue or access, money, class or anything else. We just don't care about teeth to the extent that most Americans (for example) do.
I quite often see (non-British) people post photos of their pre-braces teeth on here and wonder why on earth they're bothering!
I wouldn't argue that someone thinks their teeth have held them back. I would argue that just because some people feel that way, that it must also be true to say that all people with crooked teeth are held back by them. This is just not true.
I know from experience that any job interview panel, women/men in bars or country club over here would face a sea of snaggletooths
If you were the only snaggletooth in a roomful of veneers, I can quite understand why you might feel selfconcious.
Context is everything.
Braced May 2005
Bimaxillary surgery Aug 2007
Debraced Jun 2008
Bimaxillary surgery Aug 2007
Debraced Jun 2008
Very nice post !
And I still stick to my original point that its age gap and not geographical (but then thats another topic - Do young people care more about how they look, their teeth, their faces etc then the older generation did? - I would say most definitely yes but I am sure there are people who disagree with me)I disagree with the age gap theory, and agree with whoever said it was geographical
Absolutely agree with you hereIf you were the only snaggletooth in a roomful of veneers, I can quite understand why you might feel selfconcious.
Context is everything.
The future depends on what we do in the present.
Class and teeth in America
Wow, just found this thread. I don't know if the OP is still reading, but I agree with everything she wrote 100%. Every last thing she said is exactly what I experienced in life when I had crooked teeth. I felt my crooked teeth stopped others from perceiving me as a "person of quality". I felt my teeth were my mark of second-class inferiority that I couldn't erase. I'm sure that sounds silly to some of you, but that's how I started viewing my bad teeth. And honestly, I never seen anything to sway my opinion of that - my teeth set me apart "lower" than everyone else around me. I was missing this desirable physical asset that everyone else seem to already have. 
I assume the OP is American, probably from a city area or middle class or suburban neighborhood. When I read this thread, the geographic differences of the posters here are glaringly obvious. And there is definitely a clique factor going, but that happens on most message boards, it seems. The class difference of teeth is such a taboo topic, and it's sooo frustrating that it can't be discussed here by those of us who experienced it or believe in it.
In reading this posts, I think there also is a big difference in teeth that are visably bad - so bad that they basically define your entire face - and teeth that are not perfect but don't catch the eye of other people. I had dracula fangs sticking out, so bad I would catch people staring at my mouth. No hiding those.
Well, I am happy to report that I am living proof that good things happened when I got my braces off. I got a new job, then got promoted, and got a raise. I am well-accepted at my job. I got a guy showing me interest!! I am treated differenty by everyone around me, much better than before. I actually have some confidence and self-esteem for the 1st time. I am so glad I stopped listening to the "it's on the inside that counts", etc etc - I needed to wake up and fix the undesirable trait to finally get on with my life. Braces are the BEST THING I ever did. My family even acknowledges that I am different now in a better way. To me, it's night and day in how I am treated now I have the socially desirable asset of straight teeth.
I assume the OP is American, probably from a city area or middle class or suburban neighborhood. When I read this thread, the geographic differences of the posters here are glaringly obvious. And there is definitely a clique factor going, but that happens on most message boards, it seems. The class difference of teeth is such a taboo topic, and it's sooo frustrating that it can't be discussed here by those of us who experienced it or believe in it.
In reading this posts, I think there also is a big difference in teeth that are visably bad - so bad that they basically define your entire face - and teeth that are not perfect but don't catch the eye of other people. I had dracula fangs sticking out, so bad I would catch people staring at my mouth. No hiding those.
Well, I am happy to report that I am living proof that good things happened when I got my braces off. I got a new job, then got promoted, and got a raise. I am well-accepted at my job. I got a guy showing me interest!! I am treated differenty by everyone around me, much better than before. I actually have some confidence and self-esteem for the 1st time. I am so glad I stopped listening to the "it's on the inside that counts", etc etc - I needed to wake up and fix the undesirable trait to finally get on with my life. Braces are the BEST THING I ever did. My family even acknowledges that I am different now in a better way. To me, it's night and day in how I am treated now I have the socially desirable asset of straight teeth.
Debanded in May, 2006! Total sentence: Three years and two months. Now in hawleys which make me gag! Before braces, I had dracula fangs in their own rows, and everything else was crooked, crowded, with a cross-bite, too!
I feel that my crooked teeth have definitely held me back. I was always worried about what people were thinking when I smiled/laughed/talked. Every time I met someone new, I could always feel them staring at my mouth. We all know how much of a problem bullying is and children tend to pick on small defects such as crooked teeth, nervous twitches, weight, height, birthmarks etc. My brother was bullied by members of his football team because he had buck teeth. How can someone achieve their best in this environment? For those of you who feel that you never lacked confidence because of your teeth, you were obviously never subjected to these surrounds.
There is definitely an issue of class with orthodontic treatment. I was held back from having braces because of my parents' lack of money, yet others were able to fix any imperfection they had due to their parents' wealth. I found that most girls and boys who had braces generally lived in the more expensive housing area of the suburb I live in.
And it's not all about people being "superficial" and society being "brainwashed" by the media. Crooked teeth can be harmful to your health as cleaning your teeth can be more difficult. This can result in tooth decay and gum disease. It can also cause speech difficulties i.e lisps, mumbling.
I know that some of you come from a generation where orthodontic treatment was not as common as it is today, but with all of the advantages we have now, the main reason people aren't getting their teeth fixed is money.
As for Oprah, she is not pulling these statistics out of her arse - she has experts on that show. Her show reaches an international audience and she uses her power to express issues that are important to most people. Just because those statistics were taken from a prime time television show and not a newspaper, doesn't mean they lose validity.
There is definitely an issue of class with orthodontic treatment. I was held back from having braces because of my parents' lack of money, yet others were able to fix any imperfection they had due to their parents' wealth. I found that most girls and boys who had braces generally lived in the more expensive housing area of the suburb I live in.
And it's not all about people being "superficial" and society being "brainwashed" by the media. Crooked teeth can be harmful to your health as cleaning your teeth can be more difficult. This can result in tooth decay and gum disease. It can also cause speech difficulties i.e lisps, mumbling.
I know that some of you come from a generation where orthodontic treatment was not as common as it is today, but with all of the advantages we have now, the main reason people aren't getting their teeth fixed is money.
As for Oprah, she is not pulling these statistics out of her arse - she has experts on that show. Her show reaches an international audience and she uses her power to express issues that are important to most people. Just because those statistics were taken from a prime time television show and not a newspaper, doesn't mean they lose validity.