I have been in Invisalign for approximately 18 weeks now (finishing up tray 9), and really am not noticing *ANY* effect at all except pain whenever I change trays but it doesn't seem like a lot...maybe 2-3 days then it's gone. My upper trays only had 10, and my lower had 29. I can't believe that my uppers are almost done since I still have big gaps left from the "shaving" the orthodontist had to do. I also took pictures at every stage of the treatment, from before I started, through every aligner..and I really see NO difference. I have an appt to see my orthodontist soon, and will express my concern over the big gaps that were created by the shaving in my middle top teeth, especially since the treatment on my upper teeth is "almost over".
Has anyone had this experience before? I'm looking at my trays, and I don't really even notice a difference in them from tray 1 to tray 10....it's very strange...and I'm getting quite nervous.
I have been very compliant with the trays..keeping them in between 18-20 hours a day typically.
Thanks folks.
Invisalign having no effect?
Moderator: bbsadmin
I didn't notice any changes until I was about where you are, but I have 13 trays on the top. The pain cycle that you describe is similar to mine. It hurts for a few days then it's ok.
Can you compare tray 1 with tray 10 and see any differences?
Probably most people here will think you need to keep the aligners in more like 22 hours a day, but I have many days at 18 hours.
It will be interesting to hear what you are told about the spacing.
Can you compare tray 1 with tray 10 and see any differences?
Probably most people here will think you need to keep the aligners in more like 22 hours a day, but I have many days at 18 hours.
It will be interesting to hear what you are told about the spacing.
I'm surprised to hear people are able to do 22 hours a day. That seems a bit unrealistic if you actually EAT during the day 
I mean...assuming about 30 minutes a meal, that's already 1.5 hours there....add in any snacks, brushing time, etc...you're very close if not already at 22 hours. I can't imagine that the difference between 20 hours and 22 hours would really make *THAT* much of a difference...and if it does...wouldn't that mean our teeth shift way too quickly after taking off the trays, making the whole process useless?
I mean...assuming about 30 minutes a meal, that's already 1.5 hours there....add in any snacks, brushing time, etc...you're very close if not already at 22 hours. I can't imagine that the difference between 20 hours and 22 hours would really make *THAT* much of a difference...and if it does...wouldn't that mean our teeth shift way too quickly after taking off the trays, making the whole process useless?
I can't believe that the difference between 20 hours and 22 hours would mean I wouldn't see any progress. There has to be some sort of sanity to this..of course more is better, but come on..if it really mattered *THAT* much of a 10% difference, then our teeth are way too pliable and shift way to quickly to allow this type of device to have any effect. After a couple years of retainers, we are only wearing these at night.Meryaten wrote:22 hours is 10 % more than 20.
Or, looking at it over 2 weeks, it's an extra 28 hours - more than an extra day worth of wear!
And compared to 18 hours/day, 22 hours is like an extra 2.3 days per tray!!
Maybe you're getting away OK with your 18 hours and it's no problem. But 18 hours is certainly lower than the pros seem to recommend.
Beyond that, I am really curious why I am not seeing ANY difference in trays...and not just a "subtle" difference..ANY. I would think from tray 1 to tray 10 it would look different....
My ortho will hopefully explain. I have a bad feeling she shaved too much in the middle of my top two teeth...never had a gap there in my life.a nd they weren't overlapping at all there either.
"By not wearing the trays as much as recommended, you significantly increase the risk of finding yourself in that same boat. But hey - your choice."
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Hey... The attitude really doesn't seem necessary does it? I was asking a question of concern about the possibility of my aligners being constructed improperly since I see no difference in them from Trays 1 to Tray 10...not in my teeth, but in the actual aligners. Considering they fit me perfectly at each change...the idea that somehow I may need to go back to an old one is strange since my teeth seem to fit so well in the new ones...maybe too well which may suggest they weren't constructed correctly.
Instead of addressing that concern as a possibility, you seemed to feel a need to go on some sort of offensive about tray compliance....and that's quite strange coming from someone who doesn't even have invisalign or is a provider. But hey...I guess that's just "your choice"
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Hey... The attitude really doesn't seem necessary does it? I was asking a question of concern about the possibility of my aligners being constructed improperly since I see no difference in them from Trays 1 to Tray 10...not in my teeth, but in the actual aligners. Considering they fit me perfectly at each change...the idea that somehow I may need to go back to an old one is strange since my teeth seem to fit so well in the new ones...maybe too well which may suggest they weren't constructed correctly.
Instead of addressing that concern as a possibility, you seemed to feel a need to go on some sort of offensive about tray compliance....and that's quite strange coming from someone who doesn't even have invisalign or is a provider. But hey...I guess that's just "your choice"
It does seem impossible to keep the trays in 22 hours and that 2 hours a day doesn't seem like much. But I agree with Mery-there are enough people on here who swear that the extra hours a day make a difference.
Also, she didn't have an attitude with you, she was just passing on what she has learned from being here and from her own experience. She is always very helpful.
Good luck in your treatment.
Also, she didn't have an attitude with you, she was just passing on what she has learned from being here and from her own experience. She is always very helpful.
Good luck in your treatment.
Meryaten is right about the fact we need to try and keep thos aligners "online" as much as possible. I know it's hard (from what I read and count too), I will personally know it after some time, when I get to the treatment. In a way my Damon treatment is better: it's painful, I have a lot of things in my mouth, but it works without me needing to take care of getting aligners in the set amount of time.
Don't worry, no one is being judgemental in here. It's an awesome community
I would chat a bit with my doctor though. I am 3 months into the treatment and I see very serious movement. but it's a different approach, so we cannot compare Damon with Invisalign in this matter. Invisalign does take some time to "show" .. maybe the changes are still there,but very small. Don't worry .. no matter the problem you and your doctor will find a good way.
Best of luck and keep us posted
Don't worry, no one is being judgemental in here. It's an awesome community
I would chat a bit with my doctor though. I am 3 months into the treatment and I see very serious movement. but it's a different approach, so we cannot compare Damon with Invisalign in this matter. Invisalign does take some time to "show" .. maybe the changes are still there,but very small. Don't worry .. no matter the problem you and your doctor will find a good way.
Best of luck and keep us posted
Orthodontics patient from 2007 to 2010.
Orthodontic Braces
Orthodontic Braces
It doesn't appear as though keeping the trays in 22 hours vs. 20 hours really results in a 10% increase in movement. Your teeth respond in a more logarithmic way. At least this table as UNC suggests that...
http://www.unc.edu/depts/appl_sci/ortho ... ement.html
18 hours vs. 24 hours is only a difference of 5%! However, there is a HUGE difference between 12 hours and 18 hours.
http://www.unc.edu/depts/appl_sci/ortho ... ement.html
18 hours vs. 24 hours is only a difference of 5%! However, there is a HUGE difference between 12 hours and 18 hours.
Sure everyone's teeth moves at different rates. There are lots of factors that effect this, but I never see such issues discussed on the invisalign boards.. just compliance.
I wonder how many people take Ibuprofen when they put in new trays to limit the pain? Pain killers such as NSAIDs inhibit prostaglandins - and prostaglandins are mediators of tooth movement. There has been research on such drugs slowing down tooth movement in animals. It will be interesting to see the human studies.
What about trying to increase the prostaglandins to speed up the movement when the trays are in? I have yet to see anyone discussing taking GLA supplements (like Borage seed oil or Evening primrose oil) that is the primary precursor to the PGE1 prostaglandins that mediate tooth movement.
I am 6 months into my treatment, wear my aligners 18-20 hours a day for the first 3 days of a new set, and then about 16 hours a day afterwards. So far everything is on track. Typically my teeth are a little sore for one day after a new tray, and not at all after that.
Oh, I never take ibuprofen and always take my EPO supplement, as I too want to be on the safe side...
I wonder how many people take Ibuprofen when they put in new trays to limit the pain? Pain killers such as NSAIDs inhibit prostaglandins - and prostaglandins are mediators of tooth movement. There has been research on such drugs slowing down tooth movement in animals. It will be interesting to see the human studies.
What about trying to increase the prostaglandins to speed up the movement when the trays are in? I have yet to see anyone discussing taking GLA supplements (like Borage seed oil or Evening primrose oil) that is the primary precursor to the PGE1 prostaglandins that mediate tooth movement.
I am 6 months into my treatment, wear my aligners 18-20 hours a day for the first 3 days of a new set, and then about 16 hours a day afterwards. So far everything is on track. Typically my teeth are a little sore for one day after a new tray, and not at all after that.
Oh, I never take ibuprofen and always take my EPO supplement, as I too want to be on the safe side...
bag - did your ortho show your ClinCheck to you? You would clearly see exactly which teeth are moved & in what way in that animated video & it's still shots. 10 trays would certainly only be for subtle changes - rotating some, closing wee gaps, etc. What exactly was supposed to change?
My only IPR in my initial treatment phase was smack dab between my upper central incisors that had previously had quite a large gap when I began & also between my lower centrals that were very crowded.
The "shaving" up top was to prevent a tiny "black triangle" from forming between my uppers once that original gap was closed. Due to the shape of those teeth, they could not come close together without it. The IPR space was certainly visible, but closed completely within 2 days, so it did work exactly as planned. If you scroll down just past halfway on this page of my blog, you can see what I'm talking about:
http://smilingwideopen.blogspot.com/200 ... chive.html
On the lowers it was just to make enough room for them all to fit once they were straightened out.
I'm guessing you must be finished with 2 weeks of your last upper tray by now - did the gap close as it should have? If not, you can likely get refinements to help that. If your ortho did inadvertantly remove too much enamel, it probably can be bonded. That wouldn't be your optimal outcome, but could fix the problem.
Your ortho may recommend any upper refinements wait until your lowers are finished. In the meantime, you can get a temporary retainer made "in office" or if he's suggesting you wear your last upper tray, note they can actually last for months if well cared for.
Hope it's working out as it should for you -
do keep us posted.
Regards,
AnneC
My only IPR in my initial treatment phase was smack dab between my upper central incisors that had previously had quite a large gap when I began & also between my lower centrals that were very crowded.
The "shaving" up top was to prevent a tiny "black triangle" from forming between my uppers once that original gap was closed. Due to the shape of those teeth, they could not come close together without it. The IPR space was certainly visible, but closed completely within 2 days, so it did work exactly as planned. If you scroll down just past halfway on this page of my blog, you can see what I'm talking about:
http://smilingwideopen.blogspot.com/200 ... chive.html
On the lowers it was just to make enough room for them all to fit once they were straightened out.
I'm guessing you must be finished with 2 weeks of your last upper tray by now - did the gap close as it should have? If not, you can likely get refinements to help that. If your ortho did inadvertantly remove too much enamel, it probably can be bonded. That wouldn't be your optimal outcome, but could fix the problem.
Your ortho may recommend any upper refinements wait until your lowers are finished. In the meantime, you can get a temporary retainer made "in office" or if he's suggesting you wear your last upper tray, note they can actually last for months if well cared for.
Hope it's working out as it should for you -
do keep us posted.
Regards,
AnneC
I am going to do my best to comply and see this thru. If I don't think the results are sufficient I will metalize the top arch...I know it will cost some extra, but I want it right. However, I'm assured that won't be necessary.
The tray is easier to deal with today so it's working, and I'm getting used to it. Both good signs.
but I miss my gum, and cuppa joe. the snacking, well my tum don't need it none fer sure.
The tray is easier to deal with today so it's working, and I'm getting used to it. Both good signs.
but I miss my gum, and cuppa joe. the snacking, well my tum don't need it none fer sure.