Now I've done it. I've made my ortho angry.
My wires had been dialled back thinner when my 7s were included for the first time. Now my wires have been stepped up again, to 18-25s, and the chain elastic removed.
That chain elastic looked rather pathetic on the white paper tray liner... shrunken and yellowed after removal, sort of like a used condom that you see discarded on the ground in a park. That elastic had caused me considerable pain these past weeks. Every time I "incised" something, it hurt. Despite this, I naughtily ate an apple. Whole. Gasp. Yes, I know. Verboten. But I really wanted to eat that apple. I ate steaks, my eyes watering from the pain of incising with my sore front teeth.
Good riddance.
This time the ortho told me what was going on. He said that my teeth want to rotate inward, making a V shape motion with his hands, when they should be rotating outward, the natural position. The second incisors as well also want to rotate inward, which is apparently quite rare, as is the shape of each incisor. They are triangular, and I think he said something about them being thick on the outside and thin on the inside of the teeth. In any event, they are stubbornly not rotating.
So, stronger wires are being added to try to rotate them back into position. He said he had even placed the brackets toward one side to encourage the rotation. On the next appointment, the brackets will be moved again to try to rotate the front incisors, so it will be a 45 minute appointment rather than the usual 15 minute one.
I asked the CDA about when my journey will be over. She said that each time my wires are dialled back, I am not moving forward in my journey, but standing still, or worse yet, going back in time! I have stopped keeping my eyes on the finish line, because it is getting further away, not closer. These past few weeks I have been telling everyone that I will be done in February. Alas, this will not be the case. The original estimate was 18-20 months for the full treatment. We are currently at 16 months. Unless a small miracle occurs, my guess is that we're going to be at the upper end of the cover your ass range. She also said that next the ortho will be using a diamond strip to floss between my teeth to shave down the enamel since I have quite a bit of enamel and that the shaving, or IPR, might ease the rotation of the teeth.
Next, I made a mistake. I asked the CDA whether the ortho could do the IPR now to move things along. Apparently the CDA said that it was on my record that I do not want my teeth "disked" or shaven down. Now, that was true in the beginning, but now I just want everything done ASAP. She toddled off to inform the ortho of my change in instructions, and he came back.
At this point, I said that since I will probably require IPR later because of the shovel shaped nature of my teeth and dark triangles, he said, "And now you think you're orthodontists" in a dark grumbly sort of way. Oops. I was quite embarrassed by his being peeved. He did take a look and said that disking wouldn't help the situation, or the teeth would get gaps where there shouldn't be gaps. Well, now that I've been shoved back into place, I think I'll stay there.
I wasn't trying to tell him how to do his job. Or so I thought. It is that the CDA said that next appointment disking would be done, so I figured disking could be done this appointment to move things along. My mistake, folks.
Next appointment is six weeks from now, which is the 17 month mark.
Karencoutts' Story with Carriere Distalizers and Damons
Moderator: bbsadmin
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
The Agony without the Ectasy
Hiya Ken. Thanks for writing in and comforting me. My ortho is quite gruff and abrupt. That's his style, which I understand now, but I was a bit misled at my first appointment. He said more at his first appointment than his accumulated talking time since then. The important thing is that I still believe in his competence, and that's really what counts.
And now an update...
These last few days have been just agonizing. Mere hours after putting the 18-25 wires back on, my teeth were in pain. Every meal since the re-bracing has been painful. I went back to porridges and soups and things I can eat without chewing! Green tea infused creme brulee last night was quite satisfying.
The annoying problem is that there is no way to bite down on anything without pain. At least in the past there was some different way to bite to avoid pain. Now all ways of biting hurt: back teeth, front teeth, side... And the level of pain was incredible. So it's a matter of finding the LEAST painful way of biting down.
I am also getting headaches from the braces. I'm having terrible thoughts as well, now that I know that the end has become further away. I wonder if it was a mistake spending $7200 on my teeth. I still don't understand why orthodontics is such an expensive thing to do. How much do braces cost anyway wholesale? And how much time will I spending in the chair over the course of my treatment? Maybe 12 hours maximum? Say it costs $2000 for brackets and wires (unlikely!). Then $5200 for 12 hours is more than $400 an hour!!! If it costs $5000 for the hardware, then $2200 for 12 hours is still nearly $200 an hour. And the ortho is not working on one patient at a time for many of those hours...
And now an update...
These last few days have been just agonizing. Mere hours after putting the 18-25 wires back on, my teeth were in pain. Every meal since the re-bracing has been painful. I went back to porridges and soups and things I can eat without chewing! Green tea infused creme brulee last night was quite satisfying.
The annoying problem is that there is no way to bite down on anything without pain. At least in the past there was some different way to bite to avoid pain. Now all ways of biting hurt: back teeth, front teeth, side... And the level of pain was incredible. So it's a matter of finding the LEAST painful way of biting down.
I am also getting headaches from the braces. I'm having terrible thoughts as well, now that I know that the end has become further away. I wonder if it was a mistake spending $7200 on my teeth. I still don't understand why orthodontics is such an expensive thing to do. How much do braces cost anyway wholesale? And how much time will I spending in the chair over the course of my treatment? Maybe 12 hours maximum? Say it costs $2000 for brackets and wires (unlikely!). Then $5200 for 12 hours is more than $400 an hour!!! If it costs $5000 for the hardware, then $2200 for 12 hours is still nearly $200 an hour. And the ortho is not working on one patient at a time for many of those hours...
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
More whining
I blew it. I've tried all along not to say anything negative about my braces in front of my children because I just KNOW they're destined for crookedness. Tonight I said how much I hated my braces.
I was having a weak moment. I had just crunched down on the inside of my mouth with the spikes from the metal brackets and in intense pain. Wasn't thinking straight. Then I said it. I said I hated my braces.
Oh well, just another 100 days to go. Or maybe more. Don't know.
And, earlier this afternoon, I was attending a skating party and ran into someone I hadn't seen for maybe 10 years. I felt quite self conscious about my braces. But then tonight I saw a video of myself from a few years ago, and my teeth were fairly ugly. I had forgotten how recessed my second incisor used to be.
This morning I ate some licorice from the gingerbread house I decorated the day before. The string licorice promptly lodged itself, you guessed it, right in my braces where the wax glob covering my poking wire is sitting. Then my TMJ got sore from trying to poke the licorice out with my tongue.
So all in all, still glad I got them, but I have run out of patience.
Ken, I have not tried any pain killers. It is wonderful how you can be charitable about the cost of the treatment. I am paying for my entire treatment out of my own pocket, so I am not currently inclined to feel charitable. I did not choose the cheapest ortho, so I do feel that knowledge is worth something, but it just seems that the cost is quite out of proportion to the service rendered. Maybe a Mercedes instead of a Maserati would be more reasonable.
I was having a weak moment. I had just crunched down on the inside of my mouth with the spikes from the metal brackets and in intense pain. Wasn't thinking straight. Then I said it. I said I hated my braces.
Oh well, just another 100 days to go. Or maybe more. Don't know.
And, earlier this afternoon, I was attending a skating party and ran into someone I hadn't seen for maybe 10 years. I felt quite self conscious about my braces. But then tonight I saw a video of myself from a few years ago, and my teeth were fairly ugly. I had forgotten how recessed my second incisor used to be.
This morning I ate some licorice from the gingerbread house I decorated the day before. The string licorice promptly lodged itself, you guessed it, right in my braces where the wax glob covering my poking wire is sitting. Then my TMJ got sore from trying to poke the licorice out with my tongue.
So all in all, still glad I got them, but I have run out of patience.
Ken, I have not tried any pain killers. It is wonderful how you can be charitable about the cost of the treatment. I am paying for my entire treatment out of my own pocket, so I am not currently inclined to feel charitable. I did not choose the cheapest ortho, so I do feel that knowledge is worth something, but it just seems that the cost is quite out of proportion to the service rendered. Maybe a Mercedes instead of a Maserati would be more reasonable.
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
Boxing Day pictures
I finally had time to take a picture of my latest setup.
How annoying. It seems my teeth are *worse* than the previous pictures, taken a month ago. My "two front teeth" are now bowed in, whereas before they were straight. I *felt* that with the chain elastics, I could feel my 2nd incisors recessing (being pushed inward) further, which was particularly horrifying, since my main unhappiness with my teeth cosmetically before I started this whole journey was my recessed upper 2nd incisor (right). Running my tongue over the backs, I could feel the elastic seemed to be tightening the four front teeth together, pulling the 2nd incisors in. Well, the pictures show that the two front teeth are the ones that show the most damage from the elastic.
Now, I wonder what the ortho was thinking. He said the front teeth were stubbornly resisting turning the right way, staying concave instead of convex. But now the pictures tell a different story, that they were more convex BEFORE the previous adjustment. I hope I am making some sense here.
Here is the pic that shows the front teeth:
Front closed:
Yup, indeed we have moved backward in time. Or so it appears to my untrained eye.
I love the chapped lips in the pictures.
Also, I find it annoying to have a poking wire throughout the holiday feasting season. The clod of wax keeps coming off. And although the office is open, I have my children with me as they are out of school for holidays. So it's not very convenient to go in just to have wires clipped. I have to take kids with me into the office, which means getting them dressed and out the door. No easy feat.
At least the sharp flesh tearing wire end has acted as a deterrent against uncontrolled chewing, otherwise I would have probably stuffed more into my face so far.
How annoying. It seems my teeth are *worse* than the previous pictures, taken a month ago. My "two front teeth" are now bowed in, whereas before they were straight. I *felt* that with the chain elastics, I could feel my 2nd incisors recessing (being pushed inward) further, which was particularly horrifying, since my main unhappiness with my teeth cosmetically before I started this whole journey was my recessed upper 2nd incisor (right). Running my tongue over the backs, I could feel the elastic seemed to be tightening the four front teeth together, pulling the 2nd incisors in. Well, the pictures show that the two front teeth are the ones that show the most damage from the elastic.
Now, I wonder what the ortho was thinking. He said the front teeth were stubbornly resisting turning the right way, staying concave instead of convex. But now the pictures tell a different story, that they were more convex BEFORE the previous adjustment. I hope I am making some sense here.
Here is the pic that shows the front teeth:
Front closed:
Yup, indeed we have moved backward in time. Or so it appears to my untrained eye.
I love the chapped lips in the pictures.
Also, I find it annoying to have a poking wire throughout the holiday feasting season. The clod of wax keeps coming off. And although the office is open, I have my children with me as they are out of school for holidays. So it's not very convenient to go in just to have wires clipped. I have to take kids with me into the office, which means getting them dressed and out the door. No easy feat.
At least the sharp flesh tearing wire end has acted as a deterrent against uncontrolled chewing, otherwise I would have probably stuffed more into my face so far.
Don't fret too much. I think all of us have taken a step back during the whole orthodontic process, I know I have. Months of advancing my top have disappeared, while the doc quips 'oh that will settle out after this and that and this and that happens'..grrr. I feel your frustration and sense of wondering WTH they are thinking. And to have a pokey wire on top of it all, well that is just frikken fantastic...NOT! Hang in there..it is surely to get better!
2/2/09: metal braces T/B
8/20/10: braced removed (18mons, 18days), hawley retainers T/B
9/16/10: LR central incisor extracted (failed root canal)
2/23/11: implant/bone graft
9/15/11: implant crown placed, lower lingual bonding corrected
9/21/11: upper bonding on lateral gaps from upper arch forward advancement
10/17/11: new hawley retainers w/plastic tubing over the 'social six' wire, both T/B
8/20/10: braced removed (18mons, 18days), hawley retainers T/B
9/16/10: LR central incisor extracted (failed root canal)
2/23/11: implant/bone graft
9/15/11: implant crown placed, lower lingual bonding corrected
9/21/11: upper bonding on lateral gaps from upper arch forward advancement
10/17/11: new hawley retainers w/plastic tubing over the 'social six' wire, both T/B
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
Cross posting
Thank you opera gal, for your reassurance.
I've been posting in the Metal Mouth Forum lately, and thought I should update my Braces Story as well.
Essentially, I've been complaining about how for the past month or more I've been wanting to rip off my braces with pliers or take a nice chainsaw to them. Those feelings were likely aggravated by (literally) having a poking wire from my adjustment right before Christmas and wearing wax through the entire MERRY HOLIDAY SEASON. It was a bit of a good thing though, since I ended up eating a little less than I might have due to the pain from the damn poking wire.
Today I read an interesting post comparing ceramics to Damons. Let me summarize: Ceramics good, Damons bad, very bad. Here is what I wrote in reply, in part, regarding my choice of the Damon system:
"My friend, who is a dentist, was sincerely convinced that the Damon system is superior. Based on this and the marketing material written by the Damon company itself, including their studies, I bought in. Another dentist friend opined that the Damon system was not any better than the conventional bracket system. Cost of conventional: $4500. Cost of Damon: $7000. I was actually convinced I would be buying into a superior system and that you get what you pay for.
The Damon quote promised a slightly faster time: about 3 months less, which is, for those of you who are familiar with my Braces Begone post, is an awfully long time for me. I agree with you that the 8 week time between appointments is beneficial to the dentist, but sometimes distressing for the patient who sometimes need reassurance, especially in the early days, or may have a concern that needs addressing.
I would be interested in reading any studies which show that Damon braces are no faster than ordinary (non self-ligating) braces. I had trouble finding that information when I looked, around 18 months ago when I first started my journey.
Ultimately I chose the Damon system based on the ortho's treatment plan. The ortho who I finally chose proposed the most elegant solution to my messed up teeth, which included new technology (the Carriere Distalizer, which you can read about in my Braces Story in this forum). I also chose it for the elements his plan did NOT include, which was bite turbos and tooth extractions, which other orthos had suggested. My ortho's solution included a 6 month stint in the Carriere Distalizers before 12 months in full Damons, (in contrast to 18-24 months in full braces suggested by all the other orthos), which also meant superiority from a vanity point of view as well, since wearing the Distalizers was barely noticeable. Overall I am happy with my choice, despite my distress at reading your post, because my ortho was likely the only one in my city of more than 1 million souls who would suggest the use of the Carriere Distalizers.
I agree that the Damon system was painful for me. Even after having worn them for 11 months, I am still coming up with new pains. Most recently, for the past few days, I notice that the brackets on my lower front incisors are sticking into the mucosa touching it, and the hook on the upper right molar area is also sticking into my mucosa, causing noticeable pain. I, unlike (the poster in Metal Mouth forum), have no basis for comparison of pain with other systems. The bizarre aspect of this is that I don't recall anything new being done that might cause this. Perhaps the newest wire is expanding my teeth outward, stretching and tightening the contact with the flesh next to it. Who the heck knows."
And, barely a few minutes later, I am noticing a new pain. The hook on my lower left molar area is now starting to hook into my inner cheek!!! Enough self torture already!
I resolve to be forceful enough to ask my ortho when he estimates I'll have the braces off. At least I'll know where the finish line is, even if it is far away. My next appointment is on January 26.
I've been posting in the Metal Mouth Forum lately, and thought I should update my Braces Story as well.
Essentially, I've been complaining about how for the past month or more I've been wanting to rip off my braces with pliers or take a nice chainsaw to them. Those feelings were likely aggravated by (literally) having a poking wire from my adjustment right before Christmas and wearing wax through the entire MERRY HOLIDAY SEASON. It was a bit of a good thing though, since I ended up eating a little less than I might have due to the pain from the damn poking wire.
Today I read an interesting post comparing ceramics to Damons. Let me summarize: Ceramics good, Damons bad, very bad. Here is what I wrote in reply, in part, regarding my choice of the Damon system:
"My friend, who is a dentist, was sincerely convinced that the Damon system is superior. Based on this and the marketing material written by the Damon company itself, including their studies, I bought in. Another dentist friend opined that the Damon system was not any better than the conventional bracket system. Cost of conventional: $4500. Cost of Damon: $7000. I was actually convinced I would be buying into a superior system and that you get what you pay for.
The Damon quote promised a slightly faster time: about 3 months less, which is, for those of you who are familiar with my Braces Begone post, is an awfully long time for me. I agree with you that the 8 week time between appointments is beneficial to the dentist, but sometimes distressing for the patient who sometimes need reassurance, especially in the early days, or may have a concern that needs addressing.
I would be interested in reading any studies which show that Damon braces are no faster than ordinary (non self-ligating) braces. I had trouble finding that information when I looked, around 18 months ago when I first started my journey.
Ultimately I chose the Damon system based on the ortho's treatment plan. The ortho who I finally chose proposed the most elegant solution to my messed up teeth, which included new technology (the Carriere Distalizer, which you can read about in my Braces Story in this forum). I also chose it for the elements his plan did NOT include, which was bite turbos and tooth extractions, which other orthos had suggested. My ortho's solution included a 6 month stint in the Carriere Distalizers before 12 months in full Damons, (in contrast to 18-24 months in full braces suggested by all the other orthos), which also meant superiority from a vanity point of view as well, since wearing the Distalizers was barely noticeable. Overall I am happy with my choice, despite my distress at reading your post, because my ortho was likely the only one in my city of more than 1 million souls who would suggest the use of the Carriere Distalizers.
I agree that the Damon system was painful for me. Even after having worn them for 11 months, I am still coming up with new pains. Most recently, for the past few days, I notice that the brackets on my lower front incisors are sticking into the mucosa touching it, and the hook on the upper right molar area is also sticking into my mucosa, causing noticeable pain. I, unlike (the poster in Metal Mouth forum), have no basis for comparison of pain with other systems. The bizarre aspect of this is that I don't recall anything new being done that might cause this. Perhaps the newest wire is expanding my teeth outward, stretching and tightening the contact with the flesh next to it. Who the heck knows."
And, barely a few minutes later, I am noticing a new pain. The hook on my lower left molar area is now starting to hook into my inner cheek!!! Enough self torture already!
I resolve to be forceful enough to ask my ortho when he estimates I'll have the braces off. At least I'll know where the finish line is, even if it is far away. My next appointment is on January 26.
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
Lower arch wire
Well, that explains it. I was wondering why I was having new pain spots develop on the inside of my mouth along the lower bracket. Well, doh, it's the lower arch wire. My lowers are on the move. That pain on my lower left side is not a hook, it's a poking wire.
Ditto with the supposed "hook" pain on my upper right. It's, yeah, you guessed it, another poking wire.
I should also mention that I also nearly cried in frustration last night. I could not get a floss threader into the last molar on my upper left, despite numerous tries. I have to stretch my cheek so hard that there are wrinkles on my wrinkles. In the end I gave up and just stuck a soft pick in the space there.
Ditto with the supposed "hook" pain on my upper right. It's, yeah, you guessed it, another poking wire.
I should also mention that I also nearly cried in frustration last night. I could not get a floss threader into the last molar on my upper left, despite numerous tries. I have to stretch my cheek so hard that there are wrinkles on my wrinkles. In the end I gave up and just stuck a soft pick in the space there.
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
Open Door
To add to my misery, on Tuesday I took a close look at my teeth after brushing. My front tooth, on the upper right, has been turning in unbecomingly. This isn't just any tooth. This is the one that has always bothered me, since it makes the one to the right of it look like it's sunken or even missing.
The simple reason for this turning in: the door is open. For the life of me, I couldn't force the wire in and close the door myself, despite using my handy Swiss Army Knife trusty right index fingernail. I even tried to research online how to close the door myself. It looked so simple on the computer animation. With the rectangular wire, it was too stiff to push in. I called the ortho the very next morning, but, alas, my ortho does not work on Wednesdays. So I made an appointment for Thursday. I went all the way to the office to have the door closed, 52 minutes of travel time (I ran there), for about a five second fix.
And now, joy oh joy, I am experiencing that same pain that you get at each adjustment. My front teeth are sore, so sore that I am avoiding any foods that I need to "incise."
I wonder now how much ground I have lost. I looked on the Damon website to see a general treatment plan with wire widths and suggested times in each type of wire. According to that site, I have probably, oh, another 20 months to go!!! How can this be? Shoot me now.
The simple reason for this turning in: the door is open. For the life of me, I couldn't force the wire in and close the door myself, despite using my handy Swiss Army Knife trusty right index fingernail. I even tried to research online how to close the door myself. It looked so simple on the computer animation. With the rectangular wire, it was too stiff to push in. I called the ortho the very next morning, but, alas, my ortho does not work on Wednesdays. So I made an appointment for Thursday. I went all the way to the office to have the door closed, 52 minutes of travel time (I ran there), for about a five second fix.
And now, joy oh joy, I am experiencing that same pain that you get at each adjustment. My front teeth are sore, so sore that I am avoiding any foods that I need to "incise."
I wonder now how much ground I have lost. I looked on the Damon website to see a general treatment plan with wire widths and suggested times in each type of wire. According to that site, I have probably, oh, another 20 months to go!!! How can this be? Shoot me now.
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
The Finish Line Has Been Moved
Today I asked the dreaded question: how much longer?
As expected, my ortho was not happy with the question--until he checked my file. I originally received an estimate of 12 months in braces. We will be finished 12 months in about three weeks. With the way things are going, my wire widths languishing at the 14-25 and 18-25 marks, I was concerned that we were in for a longer ride than expected.
He said that it bothers him when patients repeatedly ask him how long it will be, until he realized that this is the first time I asked him this question and that we are at the end of the original time estimate. I think this might have softened him a bit. He said he hates it when patients pressure him into getting their braces off. He asked me whether I want to just have my teeth straightened and the braces off now, or if I want to fix my bite and my front teeth.
He made me feel bad for asking the estimated time for finishing. I still persisted and said, "will it be two months or six months?" And he said more like six months. Sigh. He said that they would be off definitely by September and probably in the summer. I tried to explain why I was anxious to have them off, that I am planning to start work in September and do not want to interview in braces. Most people do not understand adult orthodontics and think we're just being vain.
I was determined to get this information, a time estimate for the end, because my patience for orthodontic appliance care is wearing thin. Not knowing WHEN it will end is trying my patience. I was satisfied with the time estimate, any time estimate.
Recently I received a package of flossfish in the mail. For $6, I have made flossing much easier and I think I can handle more months of this crap. The flossfish aren't perfect, not allowing for much c-shaped cleaning, but at least I can jam something in there without bursting a blood vessel in my brain. The instrument encourages me to floss more often, certainly.
By the end of the appointment, my ortho was much more kind and perhaps more understanding. He said that he has seen hundreds of cases, and mine is the one out of 100 where he has followed the same procedures that have always worked before but for some inexplicable reason, the teeth are not cooperating. He guessed that maybe my teeth don't move in the bone the way they are expected to. Or that the upper and lower arches are changing shape at different rates.
There are two issues. First, my two front teeth are still resisting turning out rather than in, to follow the curve of the arch. The brackets on these teeth were removed (painfully!) and new ones positioned to facilitate turning, off to one side.
Second, my lower arch is overly narrow, in comparison to the upper arch, which is wider. The bite on my right side is fine, but the one on my left is not. This was also unexplained. He was using some type of Damon lookalike archwire, but decided that this might be the problem and decided to switch to real Damon archwires. He noted that the archwires I previously had on my teeth did not match in curvature. The lookalike archwires are less expensive.
He also noted that I don't close my jaw symmetrically, but instead track my lower jaw to the right when I close it. He attributed this to perhaps a problem with the right TMJ.
So, the road is ever longer.
I'll post pics when I have time.
Ken, thanks for the words of encouragement!
As expected, my ortho was not happy with the question--until he checked my file. I originally received an estimate of 12 months in braces. We will be finished 12 months in about three weeks. With the way things are going, my wire widths languishing at the 14-25 and 18-25 marks, I was concerned that we were in for a longer ride than expected.
He said that it bothers him when patients repeatedly ask him how long it will be, until he realized that this is the first time I asked him this question and that we are at the end of the original time estimate. I think this might have softened him a bit. He said he hates it when patients pressure him into getting their braces off. He asked me whether I want to just have my teeth straightened and the braces off now, or if I want to fix my bite and my front teeth.
He made me feel bad for asking the estimated time for finishing. I still persisted and said, "will it be two months or six months?" And he said more like six months. Sigh. He said that they would be off definitely by September and probably in the summer. I tried to explain why I was anxious to have them off, that I am planning to start work in September and do not want to interview in braces. Most people do not understand adult orthodontics and think we're just being vain.
I was determined to get this information, a time estimate for the end, because my patience for orthodontic appliance care is wearing thin. Not knowing WHEN it will end is trying my patience. I was satisfied with the time estimate, any time estimate.
Recently I received a package of flossfish in the mail. For $6, I have made flossing much easier and I think I can handle more months of this crap. The flossfish aren't perfect, not allowing for much c-shaped cleaning, but at least I can jam something in there without bursting a blood vessel in my brain. The instrument encourages me to floss more often, certainly.
By the end of the appointment, my ortho was much more kind and perhaps more understanding. He said that he has seen hundreds of cases, and mine is the one out of 100 where he has followed the same procedures that have always worked before but for some inexplicable reason, the teeth are not cooperating. He guessed that maybe my teeth don't move in the bone the way they are expected to. Or that the upper and lower arches are changing shape at different rates.
There are two issues. First, my two front teeth are still resisting turning out rather than in, to follow the curve of the arch. The brackets on these teeth were removed (painfully!) and new ones positioned to facilitate turning, off to one side.
Second, my lower arch is overly narrow, in comparison to the upper arch, which is wider. The bite on my right side is fine, but the one on my left is not. This was also unexplained. He was using some type of Damon lookalike archwire, but decided that this might be the problem and decided to switch to real Damon archwires. He noted that the archwires I previously had on my teeth did not match in curvature. The lookalike archwires are less expensive.
He also noted that I don't close my jaw symmetrically, but instead track my lower jaw to the right when I close it. He attributed this to perhaps a problem with the right TMJ.
So, the road is ever longer.
I'll post pics when I have time.
Ken, thanks for the words of encouragement!
Hang in there!! We are on a similar path, as I just passed by 12month mark as well, and asked the dreaded 'where are we in the process' question. I was given a 12-18 month estimate originally, and looks like it will be at least the 18 mark before release. The doc was ok about giving an estimate, though I am sure she gets asked it over and over again all day long from various patients. I'm sure docs get worn down by the asking of questions, the non-compliant patients, and the simple daily grind of being wrist deep in mouths all day. No, he shouldn't have made you feel guilty for asking, as when you boil it down, you *are* paying for a service, and the customer deserves the right to know what's going on. Hopefully the new bracket placement and wire will get things on the move for you! Crossed fingers!!
2/2/09: metal braces T/B
8/20/10: braced removed (18mons, 18days), hawley retainers T/B
9/16/10: LR central incisor extracted (failed root canal)
2/23/11: implant/bone graft
9/15/11: implant crown placed, lower lingual bonding corrected
9/21/11: upper bonding on lateral gaps from upper arch forward advancement
10/17/11: new hawley retainers w/plastic tubing over the 'social six' wire, both T/B
8/20/10: braced removed (18mons, 18days), hawley retainers T/B
9/16/10: LR central incisor extracted (failed root canal)
2/23/11: implant/bone graft
9/15/11: implant crown placed, lower lingual bonding corrected
9/21/11: upper bonding on lateral gaps from upper arch forward advancement
10/17/11: new hawley retainers w/plastic tubing over the 'social six' wire, both T/B
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
Opera Gal,
I am sorry that you have also been handed the upper end of your range. When practised law, we used the term "Cover Your Ass" for the letters we sent to our clients to absolve us of responsibility if unknown elements threw things off the tracks. Your 18 month estimate upper end was a CYA estimate, if ever I saw one.
Now, all orthos seem to give estimates of time, plus leeway of two months. That was the case with the four orthos I saw.
The more I think about what went down in the chair at my appointment, the more angry I am getting. Why the heck am I afraid of angering my ortho? It's not a free service and he is not doing me any favours by treating me. I have done nothing wrong. I have done everything required of me. I kept up my end of the bargain. I wore my elastics exactly as ordered.
Now I am rethinking my recommendation of my ortho. Competency is one thing. Sensitivity to the patient is another. It must be hard to empathize with patients when you see hundreds of patients a year. If you have lost track of how your patients feel (this is really a form of expensive self torture), then you should consider quitting your practice.
I'm not just a mouth. I spend valuable hours of my time maintaining my teeth with these &*(& metal monstrous brackets on. I spend hours in pain with the hooks and the wires poking and tearing my flesh, the wires making impressions on the inside of my cheeks. Every extra month in braces is not a small thing to ask of a patient.
Why the heck didn't the ortho apologize? Sure, he thinks it is not his fault. Is it my fault? The fault of my "rare" teeth that don't move the way he expects? Estimates are just estimates, of course I understand this, but why am I made to feel afraid and like a royal pain in the ass when this is not my fault?
At the moment, I'm suffering a poking wire on the left upper last molar, and with the wider arch wire, I'm getting indentations on my cheek insides that I can feel with my tongue, and pain in my lower left molar's adjacent cheek. AND of course, my teeth have been in so much pain that I have wanted to scream as I bit down on my food, especially the front incisors AND my normal chewing molars!!!
Just getting my anger of my chest, folks. Losing my sense of humour, and my blog is starting to become a downer. I always get fairly irritable when I have a bloody poking wire. It's such a bother to go to the ortho's office to get the wire clipped. My bracket sentence has been increased by 50%. This BOTHERS me.
Thanks for the support and understanding, Opera Gal. You hang in there too, okay?
I am sorry that you have also been handed the upper end of your range. When practised law, we used the term "Cover Your Ass" for the letters we sent to our clients to absolve us of responsibility if unknown elements threw things off the tracks. Your 18 month estimate upper end was a CYA estimate, if ever I saw one.
Now, all orthos seem to give estimates of time, plus leeway of two months. That was the case with the four orthos I saw.
The more I think about what went down in the chair at my appointment, the more angry I am getting. Why the heck am I afraid of angering my ortho? It's not a free service and he is not doing me any favours by treating me. I have done nothing wrong. I have done everything required of me. I kept up my end of the bargain. I wore my elastics exactly as ordered.
Now I am rethinking my recommendation of my ortho. Competency is one thing. Sensitivity to the patient is another. It must be hard to empathize with patients when you see hundreds of patients a year. If you have lost track of how your patients feel (this is really a form of expensive self torture), then you should consider quitting your practice.
I'm not just a mouth. I spend valuable hours of my time maintaining my teeth with these &*(& metal monstrous brackets on. I spend hours in pain with the hooks and the wires poking and tearing my flesh, the wires making impressions on the inside of my cheeks. Every extra month in braces is not a small thing to ask of a patient.
Why the heck didn't the ortho apologize? Sure, he thinks it is not his fault. Is it my fault? The fault of my "rare" teeth that don't move the way he expects? Estimates are just estimates, of course I understand this, but why am I made to feel afraid and like a royal pain in the ass when this is not my fault?
At the moment, I'm suffering a poking wire on the left upper last molar, and with the wider arch wire, I'm getting indentations on my cheek insides that I can feel with my tongue, and pain in my lower left molar's adjacent cheek. AND of course, my teeth have been in so much pain that I have wanted to scream as I bit down on my food, especially the front incisors AND my normal chewing molars!!!
Just getting my anger of my chest, folks. Losing my sense of humour, and my blog is starting to become a downer. I always get fairly irritable when I have a bloody poking wire. It's such a bother to go to the ortho's office to get the wire clipped. My bracket sentence has been increased by 50%. This BOTHERS me.
Thanks for the support and understanding, Opera Gal. You hang in there too, okay?
I sure empathize on the long treatment, mine will be about 100% longer than originally estimated.
Here's how I see it. You're doing your best and your ortho is doing his best. He made the best prediction he could and he doesn't want your treatment to take longer than necessary either, but he also want to finish your case properly. Sorry if he made you feel bad for asking a reasonable question.
When things were going slow for me, I realized I was mostly afraid that something was going wrong and my case could not be completed successfully or completely. Now that we're approaching the finishing stages, that's less of a worry. I'm just accepting that it will take as long as it takes and I'm happy that I will be able to achieve the results whenever that happens. And frankly after all this torture, I'm going to be a perfectionist and not let them come off until I'm satisfied that everything is as damn straight as possible.
Good luck with the interview process.
Here's how I see it. You're doing your best and your ortho is doing his best. He made the best prediction he could and he doesn't want your treatment to take longer than necessary either, but he also want to finish your case properly. Sorry if he made you feel bad for asking a reasonable question.
When things were going slow for me, I realized I was mostly afraid that something was going wrong and my case could not be completed successfully or completely. Now that we're approaching the finishing stages, that's less of a worry. I'm just accepting that it will take as long as it takes and I'm happy that I will be able to achieve the results whenever that happens. And frankly after all this torture, I'm going to be a perfectionist and not let them come off until I'm satisfied that everything is as damn straight as possible.
Good luck with the interview process.
Braced for 2 years, 11 months, 2 weeks and 5 days (the 2nd time ‘round)
Hawley on top, Essix on bottom
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karencoutts
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:38 pm
Better
About a week after the adjustment, I had my poking wires clipped... by the ortho himself. It seems my case has been escalated in some way, because now the ortho is doing things that were formerly relegated to CDA's duties. The ortho clipped all of my wire ends, except my lower right. He said that he hesitates to clip it but did not explain why.
So I went home with continuing pain, and... two sore lumps appeared in my cheeks bilaterally, bumps protruding toward my teeth that were sore to the touch. I had trouble figuring out what was causing the sore lumps. I resorted to keeping wax over the wire ends to lessen the pain, but invariable I would end up eating them at my next meal. Without them, meals were too painful to tolerate. My eyes would water as I tried to chew things. I had continued soreness both in my front incisors as well as my molars, leaving me, uh, no surfaces to chew/tear with.
Weeks later, the lumps have disappeared and so has the pain. I don't know when it stopped, but I do know that I forgot to wax at night two nights in a row. Maybe this helped to toughen up the inside of my cheek? In any event, with the pain gone, things are so much better.
I read about a new device used to help overweight subjects lose weight: stitching on a square of material on your tongue that discourages one from eating solid food due to the pain, forcing you to stick with a liquid diet. I thought that perhaps everyone thinking of losing weight should consider braces! I know it worked for me. Every time I have an adjustment, I get turned off eating for too many days.
For Valentine's Day I wore a red dress and bright red glossy lipstick. I look pretty good in the photos my friend took, except I have taken to smiling with my teeth showing, leading to a hideous problem: the red lipstick accentuates my braces as the lipstick ends up on the braces and even my teeth. Looking at the photos I am embarrassed about my teeth that night. I have to remember to smile without showing my teeth for any future photos... Or, wear neutral lipstick or just lipgloss. YIKES! I looked much like someone who recently had a meal of blood, perhaps a Valentine's Vampire. Of course I'm exaggerating here, but trust me, don't wear shiny red lipstick to a party when you're wearing braces.
So I went home with continuing pain, and... two sore lumps appeared in my cheeks bilaterally, bumps protruding toward my teeth that were sore to the touch. I had trouble figuring out what was causing the sore lumps. I resorted to keeping wax over the wire ends to lessen the pain, but invariable I would end up eating them at my next meal. Without them, meals were too painful to tolerate. My eyes would water as I tried to chew things. I had continued soreness both in my front incisors as well as my molars, leaving me, uh, no surfaces to chew/tear with.
Weeks later, the lumps have disappeared and so has the pain. I don't know when it stopped, but I do know that I forgot to wax at night two nights in a row. Maybe this helped to toughen up the inside of my cheek? In any event, with the pain gone, things are so much better.
I read about a new device used to help overweight subjects lose weight: stitching on a square of material on your tongue that discourages one from eating solid food due to the pain, forcing you to stick with a liquid diet. I thought that perhaps everyone thinking of losing weight should consider braces! I know it worked for me. Every time I have an adjustment, I get turned off eating for too many days.
For Valentine's Day I wore a red dress and bright red glossy lipstick. I look pretty good in the photos my friend took, except I have taken to smiling with my teeth showing, leading to a hideous problem: the red lipstick accentuates my braces as the lipstick ends up on the braces and even my teeth. Looking at the photos I am embarrassed about my teeth that night. I have to remember to smile without showing my teeth for any future photos... Or, wear neutral lipstick or just lipgloss. YIKES! I looked much like someone who recently had a meal of blood, perhaps a Valentine's Vampire. Of course I'm exaggerating here, but trust me, don't wear shiny red lipstick to a party when you're wearing braces.
here's an old trick to keep lipstick off your teeth, even with braces:
after lipstick application, stick your finger in your mouth, purse your lips around it and slowly withdraw it...that should help stop you having the issue.
after lipstick application, stick your finger in your mouth, purse your lips around it and slowly withdraw it...that should help stop you having the issue.
2/2/09: metal braces T/B
8/20/10: braced removed (18mons, 18days), hawley retainers T/B
9/16/10: LR central incisor extracted (failed root canal)
2/23/11: implant/bone graft
9/15/11: implant crown placed, lower lingual bonding corrected
9/21/11: upper bonding on lateral gaps from upper arch forward advancement
10/17/11: new hawley retainers w/plastic tubing over the 'social six' wire, both T/B
8/20/10: braced removed (18mons, 18days), hawley retainers T/B
9/16/10: LR central incisor extracted (failed root canal)
2/23/11: implant/bone graft
9/15/11: implant crown placed, lower lingual bonding corrected
9/21/11: upper bonding on lateral gaps from upper arch forward advancement
10/17/11: new hawley retainers w/plastic tubing over the 'social six' wire, both T/B
Do you have any comments in regards to the carriere distalizer? I am looking to get braces soon and one of the ortho's treatment plan includes the carriere distalizer, while the 2nd ortho only wants to use elastics. My case is similar to yours and I was curious what kind of progress you have made as far as correcting your deep bite? Should I go with carriere or regular elastics? How much did your total procedure cost for braces and the carriere?