new tongue crib

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Linda1
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm

new tongue crib

#1 Post by Linda1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:18 pm

I had braces years ago and my teeth have shifted. I hoped to get new retainers or invisalign. My orthodontist said I really needed braces and that I am having jaw pain that requires treatment so it doesn't get worse.

I got braces with elastics and a herbst appliance to move my lower jaw forward. He also placed a lip bumper on my lower teeth to help make space and address a lip sucking habit. My orthodontist has been talking for a while about how I have a tongue thrust habit that has pushed my teeth out. I went to speech therapy a few times to try to correct it, but didn't have a lot of success. He recommended an appliance called a tongue crib that is placed behind my upper teeth. I got the appliance this week and it's very uncomfortable. When it was placed, I had excess saliva and difficulty speaking. My orthodontist said this was normal and that it would improve. I called his office again today and he recommended that I go back to speech therapy to adjust to the appliance and new tongue position.

What do you all think? Any experiences with this appliance?

assertives
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:29 am

Re: new tongue crib

#2 Post by assertives » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:28 am

I don't have any experience with a tongue crib, but just wanted to encourage you to hang in there. I think it could be beneficial to go back to speech therapy to supplement the tongue crib treatment. You are essentially retraining your tongue how to move and where to rest in your mouth, so it is normal to feel the discomfort and the general sense of your tongue not knowing what to do because it's been used to a certain way for so long. Hang in there, it will get better. You could also search up on youtube of people documenting their tongue crib experience for more insights.

Navygrrl
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:11 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#3 Post by Navygrrl » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:50 pm

Can I ask how the dentist diagnosed the tongue thrust? During one of my attempts to get my teeth fixed earlier in life, the dentist told me that it would be a waste of time to get braces because I have a tongue thrust. Granted, it was a Navy dentist on a ship, so he may have been grumpier than usual. Since none of the other dentists I've talked with have brought it up, I was just curious how they know.

I think working with a speech therapist would be a good idea, but it seems to me that an orthodontist might be a bit more helpful with giving you tips about how to work with your tongue crib.

assertives
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:29 am

Re: new tongue crib

#4 Post by assertives » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:20 am

Navygrrl wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:50 pm
Can I ask how the dentist diagnosed the tongue thrust? During one of my attempts to get my teeth fixed earlier in life, the dentist told me that it would be a waste of time to get braces because I have a tongue thrust. Granted, it was a Navy dentist on a ship, so he may have been grumpier than usual. Since none of the other dentists I've talked with have brought it up, I was just curious how they know.

I think working with a speech therapist would be a good idea, but it seems to me that an orthodontist might be a bit more helpful with giving you tips about how to work with your tongue crib.
I'm not an ortho, but from what I've read, they can tell if you have a tongue thrust just by looking at the "pattern" of your malocclusion, just like how you can tell if a person is/was a thumb sucker. The teeth will be misaligned in a specific way.

Linda1
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#5 Post by Linda1 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:01 pm

He diagnosed the thrust based on my tooth misalignment. I have a pattern where my front four teeth flare forward and out and my side teeth push in. My mouth is somewhat narrow. The official term my orthodontist used was class II malocclusion with open bite, including overjet and overbite. I used to be a thumb sucker. At my consultation, he watched me swallow and could see my tongue come forward. Though it was subtle, he also observed me at rest have my mouth slightly open often with my tongue forward. I have a slight issue of what he called lip trap, where my lower lip rests behind my front teeth and I suck on it, hence the lip bumper. I also have what he called slight lip incompetence, where my lips don't naturally want to close all the way -- they will, but it's not comfortable, and I breathe through my mouth a lot and don't realize it. This is a big issue at night. I'm definitely a mouth breather at night and my tongue thrusting it bad at night, though it is apparently there all the time.

He also told me my braces would be a waste if I didn't correct my tongue thrust. Hence, he said I need the crib. He said correcting it takes a while, probably 9-12 months in my case. He said I would need a retainer with a tongue crib in it afterwards to wear at night to continue reinforcing the new pattern. I asked about getting a removable crib now and he said I might be able to at 9 months, but for the first 9 months, I need the crib in at all times to be effective.

Thank you for your suggestion about youtube videos. I watched some other people had up. It definitely does effect speech. Mine hangs rather low. It can be seen behind my front teeth when I open my mouth. I called his office on Friday again and they set me back up with a speech therapist. I go tomorrow, so I'll report back. When it was first placed, he told me not to fight it, but to let my tongue be behind it. He said my entire tongue should be resting on the roof of my mouth and my lips should be sealed (this is the goal at the end of treatment). He said in speaking and swallowing to let my tongue hit the crib towards the top and adjust to the new position. I'm wearing elastics now and two of them are pretty tight. This helps move teeth but also encourages me to keep my mouth closed and to breathe through my nose, especially at night. Eating has been hard. I'm drinking a lot of smoothies and eating soup and soft foods.

I feels so weird to have in my mouth. I feel so odd talking to others and talking on the phone. I've been reading books aloud to myself as my orthodontist suggested. Let's hope speech therapy helps.

Navygrrl
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:11 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#6 Post by Navygrrl » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:24 pm

Linda, thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. I had no idea that correcting a tongue thrust would take so long, but I suppose that it's had years to be "trained," so it needs quite a bit of time to "untrain" it. Hopefully, all this hardware will become easier with you as the days pass. I'm pretty much on smoothies and soft foods right now, so if you run across anything especially delicious, please post!

Linda1
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#7 Post by Linda1 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:12 pm

This was from a document about the crib my orthodontist sent me:

"How does it work?
A wire “crib” behind the upper front teeth blocks abnormal tongue function and thumb or finger sucking. Constant reminding reaches the subconscious level, and as you learn to avoid the wires, bad habits are broken.

How long will I need to wear my reminding appliance?
Your appliance will be cemented in place for 12-18 months to assure proper training.

How does it feel?
The wires will “prick” your tongue when it is postured too low or comes forward between the teeth.

TIPS!

Speaking, eating and swallowing will improve after 2-3 weeks.
Position the top of your tongue against the roof of your mouth all of the time. Avoid thrusting your tongue forward between your front teeth.
Practice breathing through your nose and keeping your lips together.
Clean thoroughly behind your front teeth.
Call our office if bands become loose."

Linda1
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#8 Post by Linda1 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:20 pm

I had my speech therapy appointment yesterday. I'm disappointed because she agrees with my orthodontist about me needing the tongue crib. She said speech therapy wouldn't correct my habit. She also had me keep in my elastics for our appointment. I think I've said before that two on the side of really tight and I also have a box I wear in the front that I absolutely hate and don't wear that much. She wants me to practice keeping my teeth closed, lips closed, and my tongue behind the crib.

She told me that realistically it will take some time to adjust to the appliance, likely a month before I feel a lot more comfortable. She also said I will probably have altered versions of certain sounds such as s, z, ch, j, d, and t in my speech as long as I have the appliance but that we can work to improve these sounds and be more accustomed to speaking them. She had me read out loud, practice specific words, and practice conversational speaking. We also worked on swallowing patterns and she had me practice eating solid food. I have reading to practice at home.

I guess I'm stuck with this crib for at least a month. I'm still considering having it removed, maybe demanding it be taken out, but I'm going to give it a little more time.

jem
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:05 am
Location: UK

Re: new tongue crib

#9 Post by jem » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:36 am

It sounds like your orthodontist has given you just about every possible additional appliance, so it is no wonder you have had difficulty speaking. I seem to recall an unofficial competition on this site a few years ago as to who had the most orthodontic add-ons!

No doubt your speech will continue to get better with practice. And it will not be as bad as you hear it to be-try recording yourself speaking.

Good luck,

Jem
Sectional brace with Damon clear brackets fitted to front 6 upper teeth 3 January 2012
Brackets added to premolars 2 April 2012
Estimated treatment time originally 6-9 months
. Brace removed on 22 July 2013 after 18 months and 19 days
Now enjoying bonded upper retainer plus part time essix/hawley( I have both)

Click here for my story http://www.archwired.com/phpbb2/viewtop ... =9&t=42194

Linda1
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#10 Post by Linda1 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:51 pm

It's been another difficult time of adjustments. I went to my orthodontist last week for a followup. He was concerned that I wasn't wearing my elastics and concerned about my crowding. With the herbst now, my teeth don't touch when I bite. He said I needed either extractions or expanders. He explained what was involved with both, and the expanders ended up seeming like the better option.

I got a new herbst with upper and lower expanders on Thursday. They are bigger than I expected. I thought the upper one would be close to the roof of my mouth, but it nearly goes straight across my mouth from one side of my teeth to the other. My tongue feels really trapped, especially with the tongue crib keeping my tongue from going forward. When he replaced my herbst, it positioned my jaw further forward than last time and with my mouth closed, there are little bumps from the herbst visible on the outside of my mouth, near my bottom lip. I have to turn each expander with a key. I don't have to wear elastics for now and he took off the wires on my braces and even took off the front brackets. He told me to expect gaps to open up among my front teeth. As soon as they were placed, I started drooling and couldn't swallow. I thought he still had tools in my mouth to install the appliances and when I realized he didn't, I was upset. I tried to tell my orthodontist that I thought the expander would be close to the roof of my mouth and that my jaw felt like it was too far forward now, but my speech was really garbled. I started crying. He said my speech would improve and called my speech therapist and got me in for an appointment that afternoon. He said my jaw is where it needs to be and will need to come forward a little more. He said it will feel odd until I get used to it in this position. Right now, my jaw feels tight and like it's thrust too far forward. He took photos of my face from the side to compare to my pre-treament and show me the difference. I was impressed with the improvement in my facial profile and it gives me motivation to stick with it. He mentioned the possibility of a chin implant after treatment, but I'm not sure about that. I asked to have the tongue crib removed for now, but he said I've made a lot of progress with it and that it is one of the bedrocks of my treatment and asked me to give it more time. He said I would adjust to the expanders in several weeks. Leaving the office, I felt so humiliated. At the checkout, they couldn't even understand at first my last name and what time I wanted my next appointment.

I had speech therapy that afternoon. My speech therapist was encouraging, but it was difficult. I struggled a lot with speaking. She said it would improve with practice but that some sounds would be difficult and take a lot of practice. I'm still dealing with a lot of excess saliva and drooling. I kept a kleenex with me during my appointment. One of the things she kept telling me was not to fight against the appliances, but to let my tongue be behind the crib and in between the expanders and let some of my sounds be a lisp. I told her I wanted to have the crib out for now but that my orthodontist wanted me to give it more time. She said she understood why I would want it out but that I had made a lot of progress adjusting to the tongue crib and that she thinks I should try to adjust to it with the expanders.

I was in a minor car wreck last week and the insurance company and shop have been calling me. I didn't take the calls on Thursday but had to on Friday. My speech therapist suggested that I tell people I am wearing a dental appliance that affects my speech and say it matter of factly. I did so on the phone calls on Friday and it was difficult, but I got through it. I saw my psychiatrist on Friday. I have been having more anxiety lately and shared about the new appliances. She said it's normal to have more anxiety because of my orthodontic treatment. She's upping the dose on one medication and starting me on a new medication. Has anyone else had more anxiety because of your orthodontic treatment?

Gia
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: new tongue crib

#11 Post by Gia » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:31 pm

Within a few days of having braces I developed intense anxiety and frequent panic attacks. I started on medication and it improved in about 4-6 weeks. I was doing pretty well with much less anxiety and only a couple of milder panic attacks over the next couple months. Yesterday I had an adjustment with a stronger wire and the anxiety and panic attacks returned. I'm not sure what to do. I'm really impressed with what your doing, it's a huge amount to deal with in all of your appliances. I don't have any suggestions, but my orthodontist has kept telling me that I'm in complete control and can stop at any point and he'll work with me. I keep telling myself that when I feel badly.

jem
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:05 am
Location: UK

Re: new tongue crib

#12 Post by jem » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:56 am

I think anyone will have anxiety with new braces or other appliances, even if they otherwise do not have anxiety. I certainly did and my orthodontic treatment was minimal compared with yours.

Good luck,

Jem
Sectional brace with Damon clear brackets fitted to front 6 upper teeth 3 January 2012
Brackets added to premolars 2 April 2012
Estimated treatment time originally 6-9 months
. Brace removed on 22 July 2013 after 18 months and 19 days
Now enjoying bonded upper retainer plus part time essix/hawley( I have both)

Click here for my story http://www.archwired.com/phpbb2/viewtop ... =9&t=42194

Linda1
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#13 Post by Linda1 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:03 am

Update: I am getting a big gap between my front teeth because of the expander. Some of my other teeth are starting to flare out. I called my orthodontist's office and he wanted me to come in for an appointment. I went on Monday, and he said it's normal to have a gap with the expanders, but that my teeth were moving too far out and he put braces back on :cry: He put a powerchain on the top teeth to stop the excessive movement and flaring out.

My speech has gotten a little better and I still go to speech therapy. I'm still not comfortable speaking and the appliances are still extremely uncomfortable. The meds are helping, as I am less anxious now.

Linda1
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#14 Post by Linda1 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:08 pm

Second update:

I had an appointment with my orthodontist last week. He was concerned that the upper expander is not doing enough to move my upper teeth and that the movement that is occurring is causing my front teeth to flare out even with the braces and power chain. He recommended two extractions of my upper premolars to help close the overjet and overbite. My orthodontist spoke with my dentist, who consulted my records, and agreed that extractions were the best approach. We talked about it for a while and extractions seemed like the best route to go, giving me a better result and saving a lot of money too. He said he wanted to tell me up front that extractions would require that I wear a headgear appliance for 6-9 months to hold my molars back and shift my teeth back. He said I must be compliant to wear it for a minimum of 14 hours a day with an ideal of 16 hours a day or my teeth could shift in ways that would be difficult to correct. He explained that if I miss a night, I have to make it up the following day, or it would wipe out a week of wearing it. He fitted me with a facebow piece to my upper braces and placed a strap around the back of my head. He placed a second strap around my neck that he said was a safety strap and most important to wear at night. When the upper strap was placed, I felt a lot of pressure. He asked if I thought I could wear it the recommended time. I said it would be hard but I would try. He explained that the headgear has an electronic timer on it that keeps track of my wear and he also gave me a sheet to record my time so I could keep track of it. He removed the braces on my premolars to be extracted and told me to go ahead and wear my headgear to get used to it.

I had my premolars extracted on Thursday. It didn't hurt as bad as I thought, but it feels so weird to have two missing teeth. I went back to my orthodontist yesterday, and he placed a new wire on my upper teeth to help close the gaps and gave me two upper elastics to wear from an upper front side tooth on each side to a lower tooth on the back. I'm supposed to wear these all the time except eating. He checked the headgear wear and it was very little -- like 4 hours a day. He said it needs to be more than that and reminded me of the 14-16 hour wear. He placed my headgear and activated my expander. When I left the office and went to the bathroom to take it out, it was too tight and I couldn't remove it. I went back to his office to tell him and he said it needs to be kept in to adjust to it. I had a speech therapy appointment later that afternoon and had to wear my headgear. I thought about cancelling, but wore it in. I felt so uncomfortable. I felt like people were staring at me, and I even heard one kid ask his mom what was on my face. I tried to ignore it, but felt myself get red. My speech therapist was encouraging and supportive, which helped. It's been tough wearing the headgear, but I'm going to do my best.

metalmouth123
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:59 pm

Re: new tongue crib

#15 Post by metalmouth123 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:08 pm

Hi, I had a tongue crib, and I had tons of spit. I just kept swallowing, swallowed soft foods like yogurt. I got less spit, and I could talk better.
Keep talking!

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