The never ending story of Clo's braces

If you want to share the detailed saga of your braces story, this is the place to do it. You can use this forum as a braces journal, editing and updating your posts as your treatment goes on. Remember to also visit the main site for additional stories from other readers!

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#31 Post by KARESS »

lionfish wrote:
wow i would have given up a long time ago.
Unhelpful comment.

Think before you shoot. Especially someone who has had such challenging times with ortho, and would give you nothing but support.
I WOULD have given up a long time ago
Im not telling them to.
Thank you & Goodbye.

Banded: January. 18th, 2007
De-Banding: Nov. 6th, 2008!
& Nov. 13th, 2008 ; pics soon.

Lower Bonded Retainer
Olive Green:
Lower Hawley Retainer
Upper Hawley Retainer

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#32 Post by Clo »

Meryaten wrote:Oww now that's scary. Let's hope that the diminution of force has run
its course and that the springs will hang in there and do their darn job!
Yes, indeed, I was hoping this so hard too. Only a week later now and the force
is almost totally gone. Even worse, it feels like they are deformed now into this
U-shape, and therefor do not exert an intrusive force anymore, but pull at those
molars when I open my mouth. This is the so strange story about how springs
that should INtrude now want to EXtrude my molars. I need to close my mouth
all the time and can only eat very small pieces. Darn !!


to lionfish and KARESS. Lionfish, thank you so much for posting this. You are
so right and very caring to feel that way. Many many thanks. But ... no no no,
Karess, I am not mad at you at all. Because you are right too. You have to see
it that way : like you descend from a mountain but follow some path that only
goes down very very slowly. It doesn't feel like you are descending, but when
you do that during hours and hours, you suddenly think : wow, I descended
already a lot. It was that way in my case. Ortho 1 started well and then things
went downhill. Slowly. Only a lot of time later I could clearly see the damage.
Ortho 2 would make things better, but the same thing did happen. And now a
third time things are going downhill. So, you are right, if only I had known this
in the beginning.

So, lionfish and Karess, you both are so right. But because you both made the
effort to visit my blog and cared to read it, I want to thank you both !

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#33 Post by Lisa65 »

Clo, I'm so sorry the new springs aren't helping.

What do you think you will do now? :(

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#34 Post by Chantal »

Ok Clo. You absolutely freak me out.

I bow to your bravery and strength.

I am freaking out with pain from only lower braces after 43 days. And you represent the Zeus of all treatment warriors out there!

I have no words. Kudos for not having murdered any ortho along the way. I will have a prayer/blessing for you, especially!

And then, I will have a prayer for me! So I don't go through a similar ordeal. God help us!!!

Good luck, a million times, Clo.

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#35 Post by BracedVeryLate »

sorry you are going through all this. I am sending my best thoughts your way.
I hope things get better for you soon.
take care!

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#36 Post by Clo »

Thanks ! This is the very best thing of this forum. There is always someone who's
supportive and giving courage to go on.

@ Lisa65 : I just don't know what to do. I surely will wait a lil, because I do think
that these springs I have now will break within some days. I am almost certain
my ortho knows this won't work. But she did install them because I found articles
that prove this method can work and because I asked for them. The idea behind
this is ok I think. But I find out now by experience that the maker of them has
some more studying to do. I try to postpone me needing to think about the other
possibilities. There is this appliance I read about. But I am almost certain my
ortho will never be able to work with this. It is a Herbst that at the same time can
intrude the upper molars. I fear I only have then 2 options. Leaving (once more)
or giving up everything.

Thanks Meryaten and Chantal !
Thanks BracedVeryLate !

@ bracedagain : it would be great if you were right about the pressure. But after
all that time, I can feel forces so well. My second ortho once needed to torque a
premolar. I quickly felt he made an error. He had to look a lot to finally see that
I was right. I have become super sensitive. I think I can now make some graph
that shows the force in relation to the opening of my mouth. From wide open to
closed, the force of the springs evolves from serious extruding to zero to a very
very small intrusive one. I fear I am right about this but hope I am wrong.

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#37 Post by platinum »

what a story!

I am just wondering what would happen, if you would take all the hardware off. Would your teeth shift to their original places and your bite would close?
Was the reason for your openbite the class II elastics?

I think if I would be in your place, I would have given up.

Hopefully your determination will finally pay!!!

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#38 Post by Clo »

Yes, quite some story isn't it. I wouldn't believe this can happen if I read it on
the net somewhere. But I experienced it myself, so I guess it can happen ...

On page 1, you can see I was having Essix retainers, and then a Hawley. They
only were there to prevent relapse of the front teeth. All the back teeth were
free. This happened between stopping the treatment of ortho 2 and before a
new one started. This resting period was intended to last 6 months, but ended
up taking 9 months. So, to answer your question, I was already 9 months
without braces. My third ortho was so convinced that my open bite would get
better. I was sure it wouldn't. Simply because 3 roots of molars prevent that
molars intrude when you bite down. If this wouldn't happen, everyone would
have completely intruded molars after some decades. So, no, it didn't help at
all. Even worse, during that time I did lose what was gained using elastics to
extrude my front teeth, and my bite opened even more. It is a pity for me
that nature alone will not correct this.
Was the reason for your openbite the class II elastics?
Very good question. It took me a lot of time to finally have an orthodontist
telling me the very same thing. You may know the curve of spee. Mine is gone
now in the lower jaw. This explains part of it. The rest happened because my
upper arch is canted totally, front almost ok, back way too low. And all teeth are
involved. This is because all the elastics I had to make an occlusion. Mainly done
by my first ortho. By doing so, she extruded all my back upper teeth (premolars
and molars). I now know that it is a lot easier to extrude than to intrude.

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#39 Post by Clo »

I had another adjustment the other day.
I had already mailed to my ortho telling that I feared those new springs aren't
working at all. When they were new, they were stretched when unloaded and
when biting down, I felt an increasing intruding force. So far so good. But after
a while, those springs got so deformed. In rest, they are U-shaped. So when I
bite down, there is no intrusion force, but when I open my mouth I really feel
an extruding force. I even think my bite opened even more because of that.

I asked my ortho to measure the force. It seems the springs lost a lot of their
intrusive force, only about 200 g is present she said. From there on, I do not
know how to interpret what happened. She made some small bite pads on
my molars so that I could bite on them better. She proposed to start using
elastics again connecting my molars to the bone anchors. But at the same
time she told me I have to accept that my bite won't get better. Not with the
help of orthodontics, nor with surgery. So, what does one do when being told
to keep coming in but at the same time being told it won't help at all ? I am
planning to see yet another ortho. The one who designed the bone anchors
I have. He happens to live and work not far from where I go now. I think I'll
ask his opinion. But what's holding me is that he would then be my 4th ortho.
This is becoming such a long and costly journey. So, my options are :

- keep going where I go now and accept I never will have a good bite.
- giving up.
- see this other ortho.

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#40 Post by lionfish »


Clo, seems like ortho no. 3 can't offer you much more. You've got nothing to lose by canvassing an opinion from ortho no. 4.

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#41 Post by Clo »


And thanks Meryaten for sticking around. I really need this these days.

I can't answer your question. To be frank, I certainly will not push them to
even consider surgery. I just lost all faith there. So, if she says surgery is not
an option, I just listen and don't reply. She claims the result wouldn't be stable.
That my bite would open again. Anyway, I tried to think a bit this week what I
will do. It is now clear that she can't offer me much more. I have now those
bone anchors for about 14 months and molar intruders for 3 months. But it is
my humble opinion that I didn't even had the right start of intrusion of my
molars. That the job never really started.
That's why I am prone to indeed see this other ortho. But she said she knows
this ortho well. It is a small world you know. So, I don't know whether to see
him as help for what my ortho does now, or see him and tell what I think did
go wrong but then at the same moment doubt openly her approach. Because
then I burn bridges I fear. And I don't know if I will have the energy and funds
to transfer once more to yet another ortho.

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#42 Post by FuzzyPants »

Oh Clo,

I re-read your story and am still stunned by everything that has happened and by all of the hardware your mouth has had to endure. I really hope that your bite gets corrected for you soon.

It may not be a bad idea to see another ortho, or two, for a consultation. Have you thought about having a consultation with a surgeon? An OS may be able to give you extra insight into what is happening, or may just rule out that option altogether.

You have a lot to think about. Good luck making your decision.
Braced October 17, 2007
BSSO and Lefort August 13, 2008
De-braced November 24, 2008

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#43 Post by Chris »

Its been a long, long time since I came to this website. Those of us that are post braces, almost 2 years now for me, tend to go on to other things, BUT I was curious and strongly hoping that your story, Clo, had a happy ending in the end. See...I still think of you. :D

Of course, I have not given up hope that there is a caring and knowledgable ortho out there that can indeed help you achieve a good functional bite. I will continue to think of you and wish you the best. You have such a fine spirit that comes through in your writings that many of us are captivated by your story and make us cheer you on.

Top Braces June 2004
Bottom Braces November 2004
Debanded January 2007

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#44 Post by joplin »

Clo, personally I would see as many orthos as it takes to get things fixed (as long as my wallet could handle it, that is). Don't feel bad about seeing yet another one, nobody's counting your orthos but you :) I know it's frustrating - I've had my own experiences of bouncing around from one doctor to another in search of proper answers (and I know all about the "small world" too, sorry to say) - but I'd rather hear one more opinion before giving up than not do it and keep wondering if I should have...
If you feel like giving up, however, don't feel bad about that either. You've travelled a long way and enough is enough for anybody.
Case: Impacted canines, crowding & crossbite.
Treatment: SARPE 2004/10/6, RPE 2004/9/28 - 2005/1/31, w-arch until 2005/11/22, impacted canines extracted 2005/5/18.
Braces on: top 2005/6/2, bottom 2005/8/30.
Braces off: 2008/6/9.
Retainers, phase one: expanding Hawley retainer 24/7, bonded retainers on top & bottom.
Retainers, phase two: Hawley on top, bonded both top & bottom, positioner for night time use.

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#45 Post by Clo »

Thanks !

@ FuzzyPants : I saw your post in the Orthognathic Surgery section. I am very
impressed !!! Congrats. I know my journey becomes quite complicated. But I
did see twice an oral surgeon. The first one when my second ortho was trying
to close my bite. At that time my bite was a bit open, but I still had an overjet
of about 6 mm. The surgeon was convinced he could make my bite better. The
second surgeon saw me when my third ortho tried to correct my bite. Then my
bite was open badly and I still had that overjet. That surgeon told me he could
close my bite by doing a Lafort 1 (3-piece) posterior impaction. Now, my ortho
tells me this surgery wouldn't give me stable results. I refused both surgeries
at those moments. The first one because this solution came falling out of the
sky, I mean without any planning of the ortho. The second one because also
that one wouldn't be part of the orthodontic treatment. Before ortho 3 started,
I was without braces for 9 months. That surgeon saw me during this period and
told me it was a pity my braces were removed, but still he would be able to do
the surgery, but then he would have to break my upper jaw in 3 pieces to align.
All that was so far away from what I read here all the time : prepare the teeth,
then do the surgery and then make the final corrections. I lost all faith twice, it
all seemed improvising as a last solution without any preparation. That is why I
refused twice.

@ Chris : thank you my dear cyberfriend !

@ Joplin : Oh yes, they count. The second ortho knows of the first one and the
third one knows about the first and second one. But I do think I will see indeed
that other ortho soon. Anyway, many thanks for visiting !