Lilone taking the plunge. My story.

[lilone]

GOOD NEWS!!! I got back from my records review appointment and it looks like she can do it with no extractions:) This is just such a huge relief for me. It won't be a short or easy road, though. And it probably includes one nasty looking spring (forsus).

Deets first and then I'll post my decision dilemmas and considerations.

*Treatment time is in the normal-ish 2+ category at first guess but of course there is huge variability with adults.
*I would start with TADS on both sides at the upper back to pull my molars back into the space there (I have a wisdom tooth sized space on one side but less on the other where Mr. Wizzie never came through). Possibly, I could do some TAD work before complete braces but she'll have to see. I'm really hoping.
*ceramic upper and lower (Radiance) with metal wire, of course. You would think someone would have found a better aesthetic alternative to the metal wire by now, eh?
*forsus spring for about 4 months but she said that if it is too uncomfortable I could switch to elastics and that there is always a chance she won't need it and will go with elastics instead come time for it. But at this point we're talking probable. This is one of those things I'm not so sure about but I'll try to be flexible.
*If I get a good way into treatment and things are looking pretty good but I find that I can't wait to be rid of the ceramics (I wanted lingual but my case is outside her comfort zone for those so I worry that I won't take well to ceramic, self esteem wise..) she would be willing to switch to invisalign or lingual for a reasonable cost (for lingual it would only be what it would cost had I been able to get them to start). We would need to be at a place where the main bite issues had been dealt with, though.

And that's that! My main concern, other than the dreaded spring (how would that affect eating on a date?!?), is my confidence with visible braces. Job wise, dating wise, and just general self esteem wise. I still really wish it were possible to do this with lingual braces but it is what it is so I just have to hope I can cope. The good news is that, if I really really can't, I've had no extractions so we can just abort without any hugely major repercussions. I also have a lot of confidence in this dentist. She gets it. She has been a braces patient twice so she knows the score from my perspective. I know that things may not work out the way we first plan or on our original time line but I trust that she will work with me for my benefit and will do the best she can for me. I feel like I will be more than a number and more than a set of teeth and that is more important to me than anything else. So...although I will still go and hear what the other guy has to say, I've pretty much decided to go with this ortho.
Oh, and she also said that I could choose to go with the quick fix if I wanted to, which would be to just straighten the front 4 for appearance only. It would not be the best option obviously but it is still a choice and I'm going to consider it. It would mean that I'd still have my fang and other issues but it would take care of the one that bothers me most (right central incisor) and would only be 6 months and a fraction of the cost....so something else to think about. 6 months vs over 2 years....$1800 vs $7000+. It's definitely something to consider. My only concern would be that I would do half a year of all this work and not really have the lovely results at the end.

Anyway, got to get some work done so that's all for now. I welcome anyone's opinion on the quick fix or knowledge on forsus springs (or anything else for that matter)

[drgnchsr36]

I think with ceramic or even with metal, you should be OK. You'll start to notice that people really don't care too much. Ceramic isn't very obvious at all. My parents came to town and I hung out with them and ate dinner with them and t hey still didn't notice them. Not until I mentioned it, then they noticed.

Dating, I'm not sure. But, I'm guessing it won't matter to much and you'll have a beautiful smile after this is all done!!

I don't know much about the springs, but you could probably do a search on the site - you'll find a few posts on it. I'm avoiding it and just having the elastics. My ortho stated as long as I was diligent with those, I wouldn't need the springs - here's hoping.

Anyways, good luck!!

[lilone]

I just came back from my family dentist. She is really great. For someone who's got a phobia, she is about the best person you can find. She said something when I was talking to her about my probable treatment plan that has me a little freaked, though. I told her about the TADs and that I was a little afraid my phobia might get the better of me when I get them placed (phobia was very noticeable today as I was visibly shaking from the moment I walked in) but that I really want the TADs because they mean I can get by without extractions . She looked very uncertain/concerned when I mentioned TADS and suggested that my mouth is too small to try to fit my teeth. She said I have the jaw of a 4 year old and the teeth of an adult and that a jaw bone can only handle so much. She went on to say that people have had gum problems as a result of asking too much of their jaw. I brought up that they used to all fit in there nicely after my first round of braces and her response was a polite but firm "well they don't fit in there now". Apparently there is a secondary growth period in your early 20's that affects your jaw? Anyway, she said to trust my ortho and to be willing to accept what her professional opinion is. But since her professional opinion is that we can do treatment with the TADS and at least try it, that should be ok right? But I didn't really get that feeling. My dentist doesn't know this new ortho and I get the feeling that she is (understandably) wary of anyone new-ish to the profession, which this person is. She was a dentist before this, though, and becoming a specialist takes a lot of training so I feel a fair amount of trust. The ortho is young but that doesn't mean she can't be good, right? I'm a good teacher and I'm young and newish to the profession. Although I'm far from perfect, I do spend an insane amount of time and energy trying to do my very best for my students and researching ways to help those who are struggling. I stay up late making sure I have done my best and my students are always on my mind. From things she has said about having been thinking of my case last night, etc., I believe this ortho is similar. Experience counts for a lot but so does the dedication of someone who is truly invested and not working by rote. I accept that we may have to change and adapt as we go and that this experience of TADS will be new to both of us. I was feeling ok with that. Am I crazy to want to go with the less experienced ortho because I like her better? I would think that, having been a dentist before becoming an orthodontist, she would know whether the treatment will harm my gums but trust is hard for me and now I feel like my family dentist has sort of planted a niggle of doubt while saying that I should trust the orthodontists opinion.
I think I should just get the damn braces already so that I can stop stressing about every little thing and just get on with the process of waiting desperately for them to come off:)

[Ellebraced]

Hi Lilone

The trust thing is so hard. You hear so many bloody opinions you don't know who is right or who to trust. I would go with your gut feeling but tell your ORTHO about your DENTISTS concerns and see what the ORTHO says, I would say your ORTHO has more training and more knowledge and it doesn't hurt to ask. You can also ask the 2nd orthos opinion on the TADS too.

OHHHHH the decision part is the hardest, you have to have trust and hope that you are making the best informed decision.

I personally would trust the ortho more than the dentist if your gut is telling you it should be all good.

When are you planning on getting the braces now if you are going with ceramics and this ortho????

[lilone]

Thanks for stopping by, Elle! I was looking at your progress pics earlier and you must be ecstatic with how things are going. If my teeth looked like yours do after only 10 weeks, I wouldn't be bothering with braces. Looks like you are one of the lucky ones with fast movement.

Nothing is happening too quickly around here. I've been waiting for various appointments almost as long as you've had your braces! Slowly but surely, though. I am still waiting for the lingual ortho's appointment where he tells me the results of the records appointment (that was nearly a month ago). It is early next week. If I go with ceramic and TADs then I will be waiting a couple of weeks for the consultation with the oral surgeon (my ortho thought the surgeon would be the safest way to go) and then probably another week or two before the screws go in. Something potentially wonderful (but I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high) is that she is going to consider whether or not it would be possible to move the molars back before putting on full braces. This way I could be doing some of the hardest work without visible braces. I pretty much have my fingers, toes and even hair crossed that this is possible but I've got this funny feeling that it won't be for some reason. One of those too good to be true things, perhaps. Anyway, she is going to call to book the consult as soon as I give the go ahead but I am thinking I should wait until I hear from the lingual ortho first, just in case he is willing to try no extractions. I doubt it though. I am definitely leaning toward her at this point.

I'll get there eventually, I guess. Actually, I think that the waits and being on this board regularly is helping me to get used to the idea that this is going to be a reality. Just reading about other people's experiences makes it all feel a little more normal and the more I read, the more I think I will be ok. Fingers crossed!

[lilone]

I just got back from my second records discussion....how depressing! Urgh...I feel like I might as well just pack it all in right now. My teeth and bite are horrible, basically. He went about it in the way of stating all the facts and information before we discussed anything so even though he knew that I didn't want to have surgery he presented it in the way of "this is what is wrong and what is needed" first and it includes lower jaw surgery and upper expansion surgery!!!. He was just giving all the info which is a good thing to do but it felt like hell and it felt like pressure to have surgery. This is the first in my life I have ever heard of my upper jaw not being wide enough so I was blown away by this. He said that my jaw looks like it's the right size now because the lower jaw is back due to underdevelopment. But if I were to have surgery and the jaw was brought forward then my molars wouldn't fit in the grooves properly and therefore I would need this other surgery. I told him that I don't want any surgery and asked if it would be a problem (the width issue) anyway or if it was caused by the correction of my lower jaw and he said it wouldn't be a problem otherwise but that I have a number of other issues that would get worse without surgery. For example, my lower teeth come forward a bit and should be sitting more upright. If he takes two lower teeth for this and doesn't take two upper teeth then it will increase my overjet. He said currently it is about 5 (2-3 is normal) and that without upper and lower jaw surgery my overjet would increase to 8 to 10 mm. I asked if there would be a way to maintain what I have now without surgery and he said no. I had asked about tads and he said that he would be willing to use them on one side to move the molar a bit but that usually only 2-3 mm can be achieved with this and it isn't enough. I asked if IPR would work to create space for the bottoms rather than extraction and he said he would have to go all the way back to get enough space and that it would be uncomfortable for me (does anyone know why this would be?). I told him that I thought about the surgery already and just don't feel I can do it so what are my other reasonable options? While emphasizing that anything other than surgery won't give me stability (he explained that my teeth have shifted the way they have because that is where they have the most stability) and there will be risk of relapse but that upper and lower extractions were my next best bet. He said he might be willing to try moving both sides with TADs but that probably extractions would be required in the end anyway, so....(the trailing off was him). I had mentioned two years in braces and he told me that it would likely be a number of months more than that because of the surgery (he was still thinking I'd go for surgery in the end, clearly). I said I wasn't thinking I'd be likely to do surgery and asked if it would be a normalish two years without and it would. When he left the room and the assistant came to discuss finances she asked him quietly on the other side of the door if I had changed my mind about surgery. I didn't hear his response but I did hear "some time to think about it". When she came in she said she recommends that I allow her to book me a surgical consult just to get more information and then I can decide whether I will go that route because once they extract teeth they can't go back. I said I had already considered whether it was something that I would be willing to do and came to the conclusion that it isn't. We then discussed that information doesn't hurt and we left it that I would call and let her know one way or the other after I let it sit with me for a bit. Soooo...that's that.

I asked for a print out of my pictures from records. I may scan them on later but I'm just concerned that I don't have his permission to do that. Am I entitled to do that because they are my teeth or do they belong to him (since I haven't signed on as a patient of his)?

[lilone]

Here are the pictures. I decided that they could just as easily have been taken by me so I shouldn't be too concerned about posting them. Quality isn't great because of them having been printed on regular paper and then scanned but you will get the idea. It's awfully harsh looking at my teeth this way. I'm so used to seeing them when I smile my camera perfected smile from my good side. Reality hurts. Badly.


By lilonething at 2011-03-08

Btw., after careful consideration in my dreams last night (of course), I have decided to go with ortho 2. I'll ask her questions to make sure I understand the cause and effect of proceeding with her treatment plan first but I feel more comfortable with her and I have a feeling that even though ortho 1 said he might be willing to try no extractions on top to start, he'd change his mind after I paid and insist on extractions. I don't think this would be due to any ill intent whatsoever, but he clearly has in his mind what he thinks is the way for me to proceed. If he isn't willing to let go of the idea of surgery easily then I don't think he'd veer from his preferred course when all is said and done.

[ashesgap]

The male ortho sounds a little pushy. I don't think anyone should push surgery like that. It's a big step and can't be decided just because some one else says to do it.
I think ortho 2 sounds a lot better and letting you make decisions with her instead of being told what to do is nice.
I know you really wanted lingual but I think ceramics (or whatever people want to call them) will be just as good in the long run.
Good for you making a hard decision...Good Luck!

[lilone]

Thanks, Ashesgap. I know he is just doing what he feels is right and is being sure to give me all the information but I feel confident now that I want to go the other route. And now that I've decided I just want to get started. Especially after seeing those pictures! I can't believe I was brave enough to look at them in the office let alone to post them on here where there is no way to delete them! My ugly, crooked teeth in cyber space forever....ugh! If I can get a move on with this then I'll be able to at least have progress pics to make me feel better:)

[lilone]

Ok...So big changes in the last few hours! I just spoke with the ortho I decided to go with. She called to talk about a question I emailed her in regard to a tooth with previous trauma and how it may or may not be affected (it luckily hasn't caused me any trouble so far and the trauma was 8 years ago but it could be a sleeping beast). She said that teeth with previous trauma could be affected and so it would be a possibility that there would be problems for it and I would need a root canal but it also could be fine. She said that she has been thinking about what I said my personal goals are and she wonders if it might be the better option to go with the aesthetic fix (quick fix option I mentioned earlier) rather than the whole shebang given my phobia, my desire not to have visible braces and my main aesthetic concern being the front teeth. She said she would be happy to go for the whole fix if that is what I want to do but that she wonders if the potential for running into challenges might not be worth it to me given my phobia. Since it is an outside of the box procedure, there is the potential for it to be a trying experience for any patient (much less a hesitant one) because of the unforseen things that could happen like the traumatized tooth or like an infection from the TAD or TAD failure or having to change plans if things aren't moving as we'd like. She said she just doesn't want me to have regret if things don't go according to plan so I should consider carefully either way. I think she is absolutely right to bring this up. A few weeks ago I was shaking and teary just standing in my dentists office. The fact is, I DO have a phobia. It is real and it hasn't disappeared because I got brave enough to go to a couple of consults. I need to think about how much it's all worth and how I'd handle it if things didn't go well. I know that if I go for the whole deal that I would get through it in the end. And I know that if things don't go as planned I will certainly not be upset with my orthodontist because I know the risks and I know that she is trying her best for me. But the question is, is all this worth the anxiety it will cause if things don't go smoothly? If I can barely get in for a check up would I be able to handle RCT for a traumatized tooth? I would if I had to, of course, but is it worth the risk to me? I'm thinking no.
I'll think on it longer but the quick fix might be the solution for me at this point in time. I'd certainly welcome any opinions one way or the other or suggestions of things to consider.

[catgyrl]

Hi lilone-

I meant to respond yesterday after I read your post in my story, but had to work late.

I sympathize with you because I, too, have “dental phobia” (thought not quite to the extreme that you do). I’ve had a lifetime of dental cleanings, filling replacements, crowns, etc. and to this day, I dread going there. I’d almost rather go to the gyno. LOL! I lie there for an hour with my hands clenched together, my legs crossed, and my whole body is rigid. (And this is just for CLEANINGS, mind you.) When I get up to leave, I’ve got a splitting headache and I feel like I’ve been thru the wringer. I generally have to go straight home, take an aspirin and a nap. And this is for procedures where I know EXACTLY what they’re going to do! Orthodontia, on the other hand, isn’t an exact science, and I believe most of the time they may have a vague idea of what they’d like to do at your follow-up visit, but won’t know for sure until they see how your teeth have moved. So, there definitely is a certain amount of “wait and see” going on. I do honestly believe that most orthodontists want what’s best for you, and want you to have the best smile you can possibly have. They really have nothing to gain by keeping you in braces longer than needed. My treatment was estimated for 2 years, and that’s how my payments were calculated. I’ve already paid them off, but should my treatment go beyond 2 years, he’s not charging me anything extra. The extra time I’m taking up in his chair could be given to another paying patient.

With that in mind, I think you have a wonderfully compassionate orthodontist who is truly trying to do what’s best for you, but is understanding of the issues you’re having with this. Just keep in mind that even if you do decide to just to do the “quick fix”, you will still have to endure trips to the ortho, adjustments, and whatever else they need to do; albeit for a shorter period of time than most of us. If you don’t think you can handle that, or if you feel you’ll be horribly anxious the entire time you’re in braces, you may want to step back, take a breather, and put it off for a while.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. We all support you here!

-Cathy

P.S. If you do decide to take the plunge, and get the Radiance brackets, I wanted to say that I don’t regret the extra money I paid for mine. I have people stand right in front of me and SWEAR up and down that I’m wearing a wire retainer. Not until I turn sideways and they see the brackets sticking out that they believe I’m still in braces. They’re awesome! I don’t feel one bit self-conscious wearing them.

[lilone]

Thanks for the kind response, Catgyrl:) It means a lot. Your description of going for a cleaning is exactly how I feel, right down to the need for advil and a nap to get rid of the tension headache and exhaustion. And that is the easy bit!

Ever since essentially getting professional "permission" to go for the quick fix, it is like I exhaled and feel like myself again. I didn't realize just how panicky and wired I had gotten until it just sort of melted away. When she mentioned the quick fix the first time it was as an afterthought and so I had it in my mind as being a sort of failure if that is what I opted for, even though it seemed like the one I was sure I could handle. Not a failure because I think I wouldn't be happy afterward but failure because I chose the easy way out because of my phobia and I hate feeling weak. Now that it has been suggested to me as possibly the better option for my goals by someone else (and a professional, no less) I just feel relief.

So, she is having her lab do up a model to show a general idea of how the teeth would move and then I will come in and we will discuss whether I definitely want to go this route, whether the better method would be a few months of braces or Invisalign, and time/cost, etc.

[lilone]

Well, it took a little longer than I expected for my models to come back but it was worth the wait. They look really good! Considering that they are the quick fix version, of course. In this version we won't touch the bottoms but I will get a retainer to stop them from getting worse. The tops will get a little slenderizing and only the front 4 get moved but the way they move makes the fang look so much better that it was hard to believe that it didn't move as well. It was very strange looking at the model because you can see the roots of the teeth so it throws you off a bit because the teeth look weird. It also took me a few minutes to compute that they really were my teeth... They look so different when they are straight that they didn't seem recognizable to me. But that's a good thing:) She said it would be about 8 months with braces (I think she said 6 before but things often take longer than expected so I think she is being safe). Last time she had mentioned invisalign as a possibility so I asked about it again even though I think all the work she did was with brackets in mind (I hope it was something she would have needed to do anyway so I don't have to feel guilty!). She didn't see a problem with going invisalign and said the results should be similar because I don't need any difficult movements but would have to be a little flexible in that some tweaking might need to be done if it doesn't get things just right. I think I'd rather go with invisalign even though it may take a wee bit longer because of the comfort and ability to remove it for eating. It is less visible too, which is big in my books. So, I'm going for invisalign impressions next week and she said we will wait and see what the video looks like before deciding definitively on it. If we don't like it, I can still get the brackets and I only need to pay the invisalign initial lab fee which isn't too pricey.
Looking forward to really getting this ball rolling:)

[chocomorsel]

Hey there,
I am only posting because I have a similar issue to yours. Looks to me like you have bimaxillary protrusion. If you check out my page you can see my initial pics. I initially just started out with extraction of 2 top premolars and the ortho thought that IPR on the bottom would be enough to get rid of my overbite. After 6 months, we took xrays and really nothing had changed and my teeth were still way too far forward. So I went ahead and extracted the bottoms as well to match the tops. The extractions themselves were not bad except for the second time when I ended up with a dry socket. Now I can't tell you about any results yet as it's only been a month or so since the bottoms were pulled, but I can tell you that I did try to avoid that and in the end, I needed more space to upright the teeth. Most people who get extractions seem to feel much better about it in the end except on this board, you are going to hear more about the bad stuff.

In my opinion, the quick fix may not really be the best solution for you as I can see that your premolars on one side on the bottom are really really angled forward and not upright. I would imagine, that they would need to be uprighted a bit with TADS/brackets or whatever. And if you still have wisdom teeth that haven't come up, you should really consider getting them pulled because I bet they are only going to make the situation worse.

Anyway, I am not an ortho/dentist. Just giving an opinion. And letting you know that extractions, while not a breeze are a lot easier than I expected. Except for the dry socket part which happens infrequently.

Good luck.

[lilone]

Thanks for your concern, Chocomorsal:) Although I see that the photos look like I have bimax protrusion, I actually don't think I do (could be wrong though). My diagnosis is class II with crowding and 5mm overjet. I have a short lower jaw (retrognathism, I think it may be called) so when I originally had braces as a child they removed bicuspids from the top and not the bottom because they needed the bottom to actually be forward as much as possible and then to pull the tops back (the protrusion was on the top). Since crowding has developed again, if I were to extract two bicuspids from the bottom they would have to also remove two more from the top. Since I already had two out from the top this would leave me with no premolars there at all, which is undesirable. The only thing that would truly fix my bite would be two surgeries and I am not willing to do that. That is a lot to go through even if you don't have a phobia. The other option was to try something experimental with a complex treatment involving tads but the success rate is questionable so I'm not going to do it at this point in time.
The quick fix is only to improve the aesthetics of my smile, straightening the top front teeth and leaving the bite alone. The bite is class 2 and a couple of teeth will still be out of line but is fully functional and the teeth aren't in a position that will cause damage down the road. If I do the quick fix I won't have perfect teeth but I will have a more pleasant looking smile that will give me a little more confidence and I will have teeth at least as straight as the average person walking around who no one ever suggested braces to. They just won't be as straight as those who have had braces. It will be a compromised result, but I go into it after carefully weighing the pros and cons and deciding that a compromised result is fine by me. I will always have the option to get the full works in the future if I want. I suspect that I will be happy to live with the result forever but the door is always open for more.

I think this would not be the right decision for most people but it is the right decision for me, given my circumstances and phobia. I was really pleased with the model of my future teeth and really hope the real thing comes out looking as nice!