Hi all,
I'm having some overbite frustration, and am thrilled to have found this site. I'm 33, and I've been in braces for about 18 months. My teeth were pretty straight to begin with - no crowding, no crooked teeth, but I consulted the ortho about my overbite, grinding teeth (for which I've always worn a night guard) and popping jaw. The overbite is not too severe, although I've never been given a mm measurement. It's probably 4-5mm or so and I can close my mouth normally, but I've always felt my chin is a little weak. The first thing my ortho did was send me to an orthognathic surgeon for a consult. After two long sessions of photographs and excruciating measurements, the surgeon determined that orthognathic surgery would not be appropriate, and that my problem should be fixed by orthodontia alone. I got this news from the surgeon on my voicemail with little elaboration, but it seems my lower jaw fits my profile well enough. Perhaps I should have asked more questions of the surgeon about these measurements, but I knew nothing about orthodontia at the time and just assumed the doctors knew what they were doing.
When I reported back to my ortho, he agreed that he did not see a chin deficiency but that my bite did need work. He said "if they don't want to do surgery, then we won't do surgery," fixed me up with a two-year plan, and fitted me with upper and lower brackets and buildup on my lower molars to keep my upper teeth from knocking off my lower brackets. This had to be redone a couple of times as I wore it down and knocked off a couple brackets anyway, but now the buildup is almost completely worn off, and my upper teeth no longer hit my lower brackets, which I imagine is an improvement. After a few months, I started wearing elastics, and have been wearing progessively smaller ones for over a year with no wire changes. My bite seems to have changed only slightly. My lower teeth tend to hit the uppers a tiny bit forward from where they did before, especially with the elastics on, but I can easily slide my lower teeth right back to where they hit before. I keep telling myself that perhaps there has been more improvement than I realize (I don't have any close-up "before" pics of my teeth to compare to), but I really do think that I look and feel the same now as I did before braces.
My ortho commented that we might not be able to correct my bite fully without removing some upper teeth, but after taking a good long look at my face, he decided that this would cause my lower face to cave in too much. He seems to be taking a "wait and see" approach with the 3/8" elastics.
I'm afraid that after all this time and money (everything has been out-of-pocket for me and the plan is almost paid off), I'm going to end up looking pretty much exactly like I did going in. Will further treatment with the elastics make much difference? Are there any other possibilites? Should I revisit the surgery route? Anyone else have a similar "in-between" situation with an overbite? Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cindy
Fixing overbite sans surgery or extractions?
Moderator: bbsadmin
You gave a great description, but I was left with one overarching question:
What is/was your primary goal in undertaking this journey?
"I'm afraid that after all this time and money (everything has been out-of-pocket for me and the plan is almost paid off), I'm going to end up looking pretty much exactly like I did going in."
Your post referenced mostly issues with the overbite, which if it isn't serious (4-5 mm), probably won't change your facial structure (again, depending on severity) once it is corrected. Elastics are the general route, and if you are (only) 18 months into treatment, you might want to see how many more months are projected now that treatment is underway. 6 months of elastics goes a LONG way in modifying an overbite and you probably won't ever have a really "dramatic" change as many folks here do who have more complex problems to address.
Admittedly I'm not an ortho or dentist, but if your concerns going in were overbite (basically modifyable, but hard to make perfect), grinding (not amenable to ortho treatment), and jaw popping (not ortho), then I guess my response would be, yes, you will LOOK pretty much like you did going in. Your bite might be closer and subtle differences in alignment, but when your mouth is closed, I doubt there will be any difference pre-post braces. and it will take a trained eye to tell the other differences.
Which goes back to the original question of if you were looking for some other correction (weak chin?). TMJ? facial sculpting/restructuring?
Again, from the layman's perspective, surgery is a huge risk, on many fronts. If your major orthodontic concern is a +/- 5 mm overbite under correction, and the surgeon said "no" on the surgery, please heed their advice. If the professionals believe your facical structure (chin, jaw) to be sound, I'd go with it.
What is/was your primary goal in undertaking this journey?
"I'm afraid that after all this time and money (everything has been out-of-pocket for me and the plan is almost paid off), I'm going to end up looking pretty much exactly like I did going in."
Your post referenced mostly issues with the overbite, which if it isn't serious (4-5 mm), probably won't change your facial structure (again, depending on severity) once it is corrected. Elastics are the general route, and if you are (only) 18 months into treatment, you might want to see how many more months are projected now that treatment is underway. 6 months of elastics goes a LONG way in modifying an overbite and you probably won't ever have a really "dramatic" change as many folks here do who have more complex problems to address.
Admittedly I'm not an ortho or dentist, but if your concerns going in were overbite (basically modifyable, but hard to make perfect), grinding (not amenable to ortho treatment), and jaw popping (not ortho), then I guess my response would be, yes, you will LOOK pretty much like you did going in. Your bite might be closer and subtle differences in alignment, but when your mouth is closed, I doubt there will be any difference pre-post braces. and it will take a trained eye to tell the other differences.
Which goes back to the original question of if you were looking for some other correction (weak chin?). TMJ? facial sculpting/restructuring?
Again, from the layman's perspective, surgery is a huge risk, on many fronts. If your major orthodontic concern is a +/- 5 mm overbite under correction, and the surgeon said "no" on the surgery, please heed their advice. If the professionals believe your facical structure (chin, jaw) to be sound, I'd go with it.
Hi, thanks for such a quick response. It is food for thought.
My primary reason for starting this journey was to correct my overjet/overbite. Even though neither is huge, when I smile, I can't see any bottom teeth, so even though all my teeth are straight, my smile still looks like I have a bit of a Bugs Bunny thing going on. I've had "buck-tooth" comments all my life even though my teeth are not actually bucked. I only mentioned the tmj issues because my ortho said my treatment might help with some of the grinding since there wouldn't be so much room for my bottom teeth to slide back and forth once the overjet was fixed (if I''m recounting his explanation correctly).
I won't pursue the surgery route if it's not recommended, but when I came back from the consult with the surgeon, my ortho took another look and appeared convinced that we could fix the aesthetic issue that I was unhappy with. It's just that if I had known from the beginning that the change would be imperceptibly subtle, I wouldn't have gone to all the trouble.
I'm hoping that patience will win out and that more time in elastics will make a difference, but it just seems that there has been so little progress in over a year that I just don't see 6 more months making much more difference. I hope I'm wrong, and maybe I'll need to continue the treatment past the two years, which would be just fine with me.
I've expressed these concerns to my ortho, and he pats me on the back and says "Let's see what happens." Mostly, I guess I just want to be assured that this will all be worthwhile.
Thanks,
Cindy
My primary reason for starting this journey was to correct my overjet/overbite. Even though neither is huge, when I smile, I can't see any bottom teeth, so even though all my teeth are straight, my smile still looks like I have a bit of a Bugs Bunny thing going on. I've had "buck-tooth" comments all my life even though my teeth are not actually bucked. I only mentioned the tmj issues because my ortho said my treatment might help with some of the grinding since there wouldn't be so much room for my bottom teeth to slide back and forth once the overjet was fixed (if I''m recounting his explanation correctly).
I won't pursue the surgery route if it's not recommended, but when I came back from the consult with the surgeon, my ortho took another look and appeared convinced that we could fix the aesthetic issue that I was unhappy with. It's just that if I had known from the beginning that the change would be imperceptibly subtle, I wouldn't have gone to all the trouble.
I'm hoping that patience will win out and that more time in elastics will make a difference, but it just seems that there has been so little progress in over a year that I just don't see 6 more months making much more difference. I hope I'm wrong, and maybe I'll need to continue the treatment past the two years, which would be just fine with me.
I've expressed these concerns to my ortho, and he pats me on the back and says "Let's see what happens." Mostly, I guess I just want to be assured that this will all be worthwhile.
Thanks,
Cindy
Photos
Here's a picture of me pre-braces and three early-morning attempts at closeup photography. What think?
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/ ... stScan.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/ ... nna046.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/ ... nna043.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/ ... nna041.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/ ... stScan.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/ ... nna046.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/ ... nna043.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/ ... nna041.jpg
I really think your teeth look great!
Are your back teeth touching at all? Usually people with deep bites have an open bite in the back and they hope that braces will correct that. That is a problem I have. I'm at the elastic stage so I can't tell how I will end up. I had more crooked teeth though to begin with and thats straightened out, but the bite is the hardest thing to correct on adults, all orthos will acknowledge that. Each time you go back, they see how your teeth have moved and adjust their treatment plan accordingly. Its not an exact science because everyone's teeth react differently.
Only your ortho knows how much can be accomplished in your particular case. As long as your bite doesn't get worse, you at least tried to make a change that would make you happy.
Are your back teeth touching at all? Usually people with deep bites have an open bite in the back and they hope that braces will correct that. That is a problem I have. I'm at the elastic stage so I can't tell how I will end up. I had more crooked teeth though to begin with and thats straightened out, but the bite is the hardest thing to correct on adults, all orthos will acknowledge that. Each time you go back, they see how your teeth have moved and adjust their treatment plan accordingly. Its not an exact science because everyone's teeth react differently.
Only your ortho knows how much can be accomplished in your particular case. As long as your bite doesn't get worse, you at least tried to make a change that would make you happy.
Top Braces June 2004
Bottom Braces November 2004
Debanded January 2007
Bottom Braces November 2004
Debanded January 2007
Hi, Chris,
Thanks for your response. My teeth do touch in the back and always have, and fit together pretty well back there according to my ortho, but they don't fit together correctly in the front. My lower arch is on the small side, so my lower teeth don't come forward quite far enough, while my upper arch seems about right. However, my lower jaw as a whole is about right for my face, so they don't want to change that, and my upper arch looks about right, so they don't want to alter that by removing teeth. Of course, I'd rather not have either of these procedures if they're better left alone, but sometimes I wonder why the ortho encouraged me to get braces at all.
On the other hand, in looking at other threads on this site, I can see that others have been in rubber bands for as long and longer than I have, and have gotten impatient but eventually saw results, so I'm somewhat encouraged just from further exploring this site. Also, seeing some of the before pictures that others have posted shows me that my problem may not be as bad as I think. I asked a friend today what she thought, and she said I do look a little less "chipmunky" than before, so maybe there is a bigger change than I realize - I know it's hard to see change when I'm looking at my teeth every day.
I'm going to ask my ortho some more questions this week, but I do feel better about this than I did last night. Maybe some colorful ligs will help!
Chris, I hope your elastics experience goes more quickly than mine - thanks for your supportive comments! Your last comment made me stop and think. If I'd never tried to fix the problem, then I'd always wonder if I could have. At least now, whatever the result is, as least I'll know my teeth and jaws are as healthy and attractive as possible.
Cindy
Thanks for your response. My teeth do touch in the back and always have, and fit together pretty well back there according to my ortho, but they don't fit together correctly in the front. My lower arch is on the small side, so my lower teeth don't come forward quite far enough, while my upper arch seems about right. However, my lower jaw as a whole is about right for my face, so they don't want to change that, and my upper arch looks about right, so they don't want to alter that by removing teeth. Of course, I'd rather not have either of these procedures if they're better left alone, but sometimes I wonder why the ortho encouraged me to get braces at all.
On the other hand, in looking at other threads on this site, I can see that others have been in rubber bands for as long and longer than I have, and have gotten impatient but eventually saw results, so I'm somewhat encouraged just from further exploring this site. Also, seeing some of the before pictures that others have posted shows me that my problem may not be as bad as I think. I asked a friend today what she thought, and she said I do look a little less "chipmunky" than before, so maybe there is a bigger change than I realize - I know it's hard to see change when I'm looking at my teeth every day.
I'm going to ask my ortho some more questions this week, but I do feel better about this than I did last night. Maybe some colorful ligs will help!
Chris, I hope your elastics experience goes more quickly than mine - thanks for your supportive comments! Your last comment made me stop and think. If I'd never tried to fix the problem, then I'd always wonder if I could have. At least now, whatever the result is, as least I'll know my teeth and jaws are as healthy and attractive as possible.
Cindy
Hi Cindy,
I think your teeth looked great before the braces.
I have a 5 mm overjet and a crossbite on one side. The crossbite was recently corrected with an expander. My teeth are pretty straight and my orthodontist said I didn't need to have any teeth extracted and he will be able to reduce the overjet with braces which I will be getting placed in a few weeks.
ssfw
I think your teeth looked great before the braces.
I have a 5 mm overjet and a crossbite on one side. The crossbite was recently corrected
with an expander. My teeth are pretty straight and my orthodontist said I didn't need to have any teeth extracted and he will be able to reduce the overjet with braces which I will be getting placed in a few weeks.ssfw
Quad-Helix expander: 1/20/06 - 1/16/07
Upper braces: 5/19/06; lower braces: 9/7/06
Braces removed: 8/19/08
Received retainer: 8/26/08 - wearing retainer 24 hours/day
Next appt.: 11/18/08
Upper braces: 5/19/06; lower braces: 9/7/06
Braces removed: 8/19/08
Received retainer: 8/26/08 - wearing retainer 24 hours/day
Next appt.: 11/18/08
Good news!
Hi again, everyone,
I had to make an unexpected trip to the ortho this morning to replace a lig that had snapped. They replaced all my ligs, and I asked for pink - this is the first time in 18 months that I asked for a color, so the technicians all joked with me about stepping out of my "silver, please" rut.
Meanwhile, the ortho was there and seemed to be not too busy, so I had some extra time to talk with him about my concerns. He pulled out my chart and x-rays and did a "compare and contrast" with me so I could see that progress has indeed been made. I learned that I started out with a 7mm overjet, and now I have 4mm. However, he did admit that the change has slowed and my teeth have probably moved about as far as they're going to without extractions, shaving, or surgery. He recommends that I live with the smaller overjet rather than risk changing the structure of my face in a way that would look unnatural. I would have to agree with this. So the final result will not be perfect, but seeing the x-rays myself was proof that there has been more improvement than I thought.
The really good news is that I will be out of braces by the fall. He's continuing with the 3/16" heavy elastics (hang gliding!) in hopes of a tiny bit more bite closure, then we'll be doing some final tweaking, and I'm all done. Let's hope the super-girl-power-pink ligs are a lucky charm! Thanks for all your comments and encouragement!
Cindy
I had to make an unexpected trip to the ortho this morning to replace a lig that had snapped. They replaced all my ligs, and I asked for pink - this is the first time in 18 months that I asked for a color, so the technicians all joked with me about stepping out of my "silver, please" rut.
Meanwhile, the ortho was there and seemed to be not too busy, so I had some extra time to talk with him about my concerns. He pulled out my chart and x-rays and did a "compare and contrast" with me so I could see that progress has indeed been made. I learned that I started out with a 7mm overjet, and now I have 4mm. However, he did admit that the change has slowed and my teeth have probably moved about as far as they're going to without extractions, shaving, or surgery. He recommends that I live with the smaller overjet rather than risk changing the structure of my face in a way that would look unnatural. I would have to agree with this. So the final result will not be perfect, but seeing the x-rays myself was proof that there has been more improvement than I thought.
The really good news is that I will be out of braces by the fall. He's continuing with the 3/16" heavy elastics (hang gliding!) in hopes of a tiny bit more bite closure, then we'll be doing some final tweaking, and I'm all done. Let's hope the super-girl-power-pink ligs are a lucky charm! Thanks for all your comments and encouragement!
Cindy
I agree, although usually he's in and out pretty quick, answering my questions with a "not too much longer" or "let's see what happens." However, he joked today that every patient, young or old, reaches the "What are we doing and how much longer is this going to take?" stage at about this point in their treatment, so he said he shows them the evidence of their progress to try to "turn the frown upside down." You can tell he works with a lot of kids, but it's encouraging for grownups, too!