Elastics in bite correction

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Lovespain5
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#16 Post by Lovespain5 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:31 pm

pcspinheiro wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:52 am
I really think you guys are confusing the FEELING of having the jaw pulled forward or backward with what are actually the lasting effects of elastics, which is to reposition teeth to close the extraction gaps: you pull top teeth backward with class II elastics anchored in the bottom molars (giving the feeling of the mandible being pulled forward) and pull the lower teeth backward with class III elastics anchored in the top molars (giving the feeling of pulling the mandible backward). But what changes permanently are the positions of teeth.
I completly agree with you and that´s exactly what I experienced for nearly one year and a half. But I just want to add when my extraction gaps had been fully closed I kept on wearing my class II elastics for a couple of months to reinforce slightly more my chin projection. Elastics can work even without gaps.
:?:-#):mrgreen:

EmilyTravels
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:01 am

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#17 Post by EmilyTravels » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:52 pm

But what about those of us who have no extraction gaps to close? In my case, I had (according to my ortho) minor crowding in my upper arch and moderate in my lower, so no gaps to speak of. But my lower jaw was pushed back relative to my upper in a bike accident in which I hit my chin on the pavement and fractured both condyles. My teeth, top and bottom, were not all that crooked, just a bit here and there, from shifting after I had braces as a teen. But my bite was way off after the accident.

I wore class 2 elastics as well as triangle elastics (as my bite had also become somewhat open anteriorly due to the accident), for about 9 months. My teeth straightened a bit here and there, but there really wasn't a great deal of movement in my teeth. What did change was the way my molars met up so that my class 2 bite became much less of a class 2.

I am no orthodontist, but I still think that my jaw muscles adapted to the more forward position of the mandible that the elastics effected.

Lovespain5
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#18 Post by Lovespain5 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:23 am

EmilyTravels wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:52 pm
But what about those of us who have no extraction gaps to close? In my case, I had (according to my ortho) minor crowding in my upper arch and moderate in my lower, so no gaps to speak of. But my lower jaw was pushed back relative to my upper in a bike accident in which I hit my chin on the pavement and fractured both condyles. My teeth, top and bottom, were not all that crooked, just a bit here and there, from shifting after I had braces as a teen. But my bite was way off after the accident.

I wore class 2 elastics as well as triangle elastics (as my bite had also become somewhat open anteriorly due to the accident), for about 9 months. My teeth straightened a bit here and there, but there really wasn't a great deal of movement in my teeth. What did change was the way my molars met up so that my class 2 bite became much less of a class 2.

I am no orthodontist, but I still think that my jaw muscles adapted to the more forward position of the mandible that the elastics effected.
Yes, that´s what I said to pscpinheiro, if elastics are always used in extraction cases they are often used in non extraction cases too to adjust minor movements in the jaws which dont need operation. Class II division 2 is a perfect example.
:?:-#):mrgreen:

cbraces678
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:57 am

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#19 Post by cbraces678 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:35 am

I didn’t have any extractions done. I have already had elastics for a little less than half my 7 months I’ve been in braces, and I was told I would be in elastics about 90% of the time to correct my bite. No gaps to close here.

pcspinheiro
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:37 am

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#20 Post by pcspinheiro » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:50 am

I just mentioned the specific case with extractions to make an easily understandable point. Regardless, elastics mostly move teeth. You can can even see this explained in wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastics_(orthodontics). Now, that movement may change slightly the way the mandible fits the maxilla due to the new positions where teeth fit properly. If elastics moved the mandible appreciably then everyone in braces with eleastics would eventually suffer TMJ problems, unless they were trying to alleviate existing ones with orthodontics (by trying to release a trapped mandible, for example). Unfortunately I can't find again the scientific publication where I read this information, but it was some review article, I believe.

Lovespain5
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#21 Post by Lovespain5 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:01 am

pcspinheiro wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:50 am
I just mentioned the specific case with extractions to make an easily understandable point. Regardless, elastics mostly move teeth. You can can even see this explained in wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastics_(orthodontics). Now, that movement may change slightly the way the mandible fits the maxilla due to the new positions where teeth fit properly. If elastics moved the mandible appreciably then everyone in braces with eleastics would eventually suffer TMJ problems, unless they were trying to alleviate existing ones with orthodontics (by trying to release a trapped mandible, for example). Unfortunately I can't find again the scientific publication where I read this information, but it was some review article, I believe.
Interesting article. They mentionned an interesting fact : heaviest elastics (what I had during all my wear of elastics) are generally used in extraction cases. Slighter forces are kept for non-extraction cases.
:?:-#):mrgreen:

pcspinheiro
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:37 am

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#22 Post by pcspinheiro » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:56 am

To me this makes sense, since there is somewhere for teeth to move to under those forces, so it's a predictable movement. If heavy forces were applied in non-extraction cases the results are likely more unpredictable, and in between appointments you may end up with new problems that can be difficult to fix. But, as you can see clearly stated, elastics have dento-alveolar effects.

Lovespain5
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#23 Post by Lovespain5 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:18 am

pcspinheiro wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:56 am
To me this makes sense, since there is somewhere for teeth to move to under those forces, so it's a predictable movement. If heavy forces were applied in non-extraction cases the results are likely more unpredictable, and in between appointments you may end up with new problems that can be difficult to fix. But, as you can see clearly stated, elastics have dento-alveolar effects.
I agree, my before and after X-Rays show well that the facial changes are caused from the retraction of the teeth themselves (and not the jaws, as it is the surgery cases).
:?:-#):mrgreen:

quickredfox
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:59 am

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#24 Post by quickredfox » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:21 pm

[quote=Lovespain5 post_id=506110 time=1544797846 user_id=27304]
[quote=quickredfox post_id=506029 time=1544474476 user_id=32576]
Does anyone here feel like their face shape has changed due to wearing elastics?

I'm not at the elastics stage yet, but I wonder if this is a factor at all.
[/quote]

Yes! At least, of you couple premolar extractions and elastics, as it is my case, your facial proportions tend to change slightly. Your nasolabial and mentolabial angles increase as the teeth are retracted. Resulting a straight profile (if it was initially convex) and a very slightly longer low part of the face.
[/quote]

Well, my profile isn't convex, pretty happy with the way it is. I already have a fairly long/oblong face so...
The ortho claimed my face wouldn't look longer, but I don't see how else my bite could improve.
(I have anterior deep bite, you can see almost nothing of my bottom teeth when I bite down.)

Lovespain5
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#25 Post by Lovespain5 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:28 pm

quickredfox wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:21 pm
Lovespain5 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:30 am
quickredfox wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:41 pm
Does anyone here feel like their face shape has changed due to wearing elastics?

I'm not at the elastics stage yet, but I wonder if this is a factor at all.
Yes! At least, of you couple premolar extractions and elastics, as it is my case, your facial proportions tend to change slightly. Your nasolabial and mentolabial angles increase as the teeth are retracted. Resulting a straight profile (if it was initially convex) and a very slightly longer low part of the face.
Well, my profile isn't convex, pretty happy with the way it is. I already have a fairly long/oblong face so...
The ortho claimed my face wouldn't look longer, but I don't see how else my bite could improve.
(I have anterior deep bite, you can see almost nothing of my bottom teeth when I bite down.)
In fact, that´s not the length itself of the face which changes. I had lip incompetence before my treatment and the lower part of the face consisted in an open mouth and a weak, convex chin. Now the lower part of my face represents a competent mouth and a straight chin. Before treatment, my normal size chin was partly hidden by my nearly always open mouth and the anterior teeth angle. Good luck with your treatment!
:?:-#):mrgreen:

Lovespain5
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Elastics in bite correction

#26 Post by Lovespain5 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:41 pm

Elastics dont change the jaw joints clinically, but can change the face mimic in a good way. For example, my Class-II elastics helped me to move often forward my chin in everydays life.
:?:-#):mrgreen:

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