Metal Mouth Message Board

I've never read anything on this subject and wonder if it's possible for an adult, say past the age of 21, with healthy gums and balanced jaws is over the possible affects of thumb sucking on their occlusion. Has anyone ever heard of teeth movement due to this habit after age 21?

I think its definitely possible if the force of the habit is bad enough, i know i was tongue thrusting out of nervousness (i did this for a lot of time) and think it's what caused me to have such a bad anterior open bite.

The forces exerted by thumb-sucking are not particularly different from those exerted by braces (if in completely different directions.) While adult thumb-sucking is less likely to affect the skeletal structure, it can totally move the teeth. I know that orthodontists use special appliances, even in adults, to break the habit so that the teeth will move in the correct direction during treatment.

I think that the device used to break the habit is meant to reduce the time needed for any occlusal corrections or to help achieve a personal goal but I don't think I've ever heard of any adult actually shifting their teeth, while an adult, from this habit. I think all of the visually apparent damage comes during the growth years but I'm not sure.

I haven't seen scientific studies on adult thumb sucking -- I imagine it would be difficult to recruit a large enough study population, for one thing. Anecdotally, I have seen several people post here about adult tooth movement caused by tongue thrusting and anti-bruxism devices. A thumb between the anterior teeth would seem to have the potential to cause the same kind of malocclusions as people have reported here from the NTI appliance, for example.

But certainly, adult teeth move, for all sorts of reasons. Bone remodeling is a continuous, lifelong process that can always be influenced. Many of us, myself included, are here and wearing braces because our teeth moved in our adult years. In my own case the causes are unclear; my only bad oral habit is a low tongue resting position.

You seem to be fishing for permission to continue sucking your thumb. The thing is, it's your time and money. We all would want you to have the best chance of getting and retaining good results from orthodontic treatment, but ultimately it's up to you to decide what's important to you.

ItsFreyja wrote:I haven't seen scientific studies on adult thumb sucking -- I imagine it would be difficult to recruit a large enough study population, for one thing. Anecdotally, I have seen several people post here about adult tooth movement caused by tongue thrusting and anti-bruxism devices. A thumb between the anterior teeth would seem to have the potential to cause the same kind of malocclusions as people have reported here from the NTI appliance, for example.

But certainly, adult teeth move, for all sorts of reasons. Bone remodeling is a continuous, lifelong process that can always be influenced. Many of us, myself included, are here and wearing braces because our teeth moved in our adult years. In my own case the causes are unclear; my only bad oral habit is a low tongue resting position.

You seem to be fishing for permission to continue sucking your thumb. The thing is, it's your time and money. We all would want you to have the best chance of getting and retaining good results from orthodontic treatment, but ultimately it's up to you to decide what's important to you.

Yay for hearing someone talk about tongue posture! Did your ortho tell you that its too low? Have you considered myology or myofunctional therapy for that? I keep hearing over and over its the back of the tongue that is the best. If you can keep the back up high then you are golden. Believe me my open bite correction its become second nature. Mouth closed, tip of tongue on bony ridge, rest of tongue practically suctioned to the roof of my mouth. No reverse swallow!

Really sucks if allergies flare up or a cold! I cant figure out where to put the darn thing! (my tongue lol)

jfriend33 wrote:Yay for hearing someone talk about tongue posture! Did your ortho tell you that its too low? Have you considered myology or myofunctional therapy for that? I keep hearing over and over its the back of the tongue that is the best. If you can keep the back up high then you are golden. Believe me my open bite correction its become second nature. Mouth closed, tip of tongue on bony ridge, rest of tongue practically suctioned to the roof of my mouth. No reverse swallow!

Really sucks if allergies flare up or a cold! I cant figure out where to put the darn thing! (my tongue lol)

It sounds like you've worked hard to turn around your bad orofacial habits, jfriend33 -- that's awesome. Since my lazy tongue is asymptomatic, I haven't brought it up with my ortho, but I am trying just through mindfulness to retrain my tongue resting position.

Thankfully, I have never been a tongue thruster, mouth breather, or anything like that. My bite is Class I, but deep; I also have vertical maxillary excess, but NOT the open-bite, "adenoidal" long face syndrome that you often see with VME. The orthotropics folks probably believe that VME is always caused by bad orofacial habits, but at least in my case I really don't think so. I can certainly believe that tongue thrusting and thumb sucking can mess things up, though.

I will say, it's getting easier to rest my tongue on my palate as my upper arch expands and makes more room for it!

You can definitely move adult teeth by thumb sucking, especially if it's quite chronic. The teeth become less malleable when they have been stable in the same position for a long time, and more malleable when they are subjected to strong forces. A punch in the face, sleeping on your hand, a slight dent in a retainer can all easily move adult teeth or loosen their position in the tissue. I know this from experience.

[quote="ItsFreyja"]But certainly, adult teeth move, for all sorts of reasons. Bone remodeling is a continuous, lifelong process that can always be influenced. [b]Many of us, myself included, are here and wearing braces because our teeth moved in our adult years. [/b]In my own case the causes are unclear; my only bad oral habit is a low tongue resting position.[/quote]

Teeth are held in place by periodontal ligaments and soft tissue and do not need to "remodel bone" to move, which makes them very susceptible to minor movements. When they are kept in place for a long periods of time the bone does begin to change shape though.

Tongue posture is an interesting subject because there is little scientific interest in learning mechanisms by which palates and arches are formed.

If everyone exercised every day, ate hard foods, and stayed in perfect health, resulting in automatically good tongue posture, it's possible no one would need braces at all since the palate and arch could very well form perfectly.

I still move my teeth, and I'm an adult in my late thirtees. It is not because I need to stop sucking my thumb, but because I grind my teeth at night. When I forget to wear my night guard, which is 80% of the time, my teeth clench with misalignment and still in the morning sometimes after a stressful night's sleep, my teeth are actually loose! Not much to do there except be better about remembering the teeth grind guard. However, I have a very nice straight smile and healthy teeth, so neither grinding nor thumb sucking is a problem for me.

My neice on the other hand, is a seven year old who now has her adult teeth coming in, and I'm concerned she will turn into an adult thumb sucking problem. She has sucked her thumb since a year old and holds on to the habit tightly. How important is it for her to quit at this age? Anyway, so I looked for some products to help her while she is so young. I found a review site of products to help kids stop thumb sucking called stopthumbsucking.org - and to my surprise there are a lot of options. There is a popular product that tastes bad called Mavala Stop, but it looks like that is for nail biting. Then there is another top rated product called Nipit which doesn't let the elbow bend so the fingers can't get into the mouth. Has anyone had experience with either of these thumbsucking products that I'm considering?

I really want to set my neice up to have a nice smile as she gets older.

joshsyoung wrote:I still move my teeth, and I'm an adult in my late thirtees. It is not because I need to stop sucking my thumb, but because I grind my teeth at night. When I forget to wear my night guard, which is 80% of the time, my teeth clench with misalignment and still in the morning sometimes after a stressful night's sleep, my teeth are actually loose! Not much to do there except be better about remembering the teeth grind guard. However, I have a very nice straight smile and healthy teeth, so neither grinding nor thumb sucking is a problem for me.

My neice on the other hand, is a seven year old who now has her adult teeth coming in, and I'm concerned she will turn into an adult thumb sucking problem. She has sucked her thumb since a year old and holds on to the habit tightly. How important is it for her to quit at this age? Anyway, so I looked for some products to help her while she is so young. I found a review site of products to help kids stop thumb sucking called stopthumbsucking.org - and to my surprise there are a lot of options. There is a popular product that tastes bad called Mavala Stop, but it looks like that is for nail biting. Then there is another top rated product called Nipit which doesn't let the elbow bend so the fingers can't get into the mouth. Has anyone had experience with either of these thumbsucking products that I'm considering?

I really want to set my neice up to have a nice smile as she gets older.

I assume you have, but when will you discuss this with her parents? Do they share your concern? I imagine it is worrisome to them, but not knowing your family dynamics would urge caution in this sensitive area.

Yes of course it has been discussed. Unfortunately the uncle is more responsible in this case.

There are probably other Internet message boards that can give more specific advice on the pros and cons of various devices. I have to say, though, that I have my doubts about your ability to successfully intervene if you don't live with the child. All of the anti-thumb devices (except those permanently installed by a dentist) require a great deal of adult vigilance to keep using the device and to keep the child from defeating the device. Furthermore, I doubt anything will have long-term success if the child has not decided she wants to stop and needs the help. I agree with you that prolonged thumb sucking is harmful to the teeth (not to mention the social consequences), so good luck to you.

My partner ,aged 45 ,sucks his thumb and his teeth are perfect with no sign of the "buck teeth" you sometimes get from it. Saying that ,he only sucks his thumb in the evening when he's watching TV not all the time.