urgently need advice re possible damage to teeth / Jaw

[horriblebite123]

I used this forum a few years ago when I was considering getting adult braces, however cannot remember my exact user name. I now need urgent advice :(

I am in my 30's and like many here had a brace in my teens, for an over bite (class 2) that was ineffective. My teeth were beautiful and straight however the top ones totally covered the lowers when my mouth was closed and smile was narrow. I read that a bite bite like this could lead to all sorts of problems such as premature aging (due to lack of support for facial muscles etc).A few years back I decided to 'treat' myself to orthodontic treatment. I got three consultations, the first took xrays and then said there was not enough bone to allow for movement of the teeth and so braces would not be effective, she said it would be dishonest to start treatment because my teeth would move straight back after braces were removed. I think maybe i should have listened. I got another 2 consultations who both said damon braces would help and went with the second.

When the brackets were first stuck on, one on a front upper tooth was not straight or in line with the others, as a result of this, that tooth started moving into an incorrect position and at one stage, one of the front two teeth became 2 or 3 mm longer than the other. I was not too concerned as obviously, teeth do move during the treatment and can look worse before they get better, however when i went to an adjustment i was shocked when the orthodontist used one of her electric tools to file down the upper 4 front teeth into a nice straight line. This was early on in the treatment. had she consulted me about filing my teeth i would have refused the treatment, however it is very difficult to shout 'stop' when laying in the chair with mouth wide open and electric tool in mouth.

The braces have been on for about 21 months - predicted treatment time was 12 - 18 months. Just after xmas i started to have trouble biting my food - crisps salad etc. because of loss of contact. Somehow something similar to an 'open bite' has developed. My upper teeth at the front will no longer touch my bottom teeth to bite food, the front teeth at the top are now too short and if i try and bite with them, the canines (where are now longer than the front two upper teeth) hit the lower teeth before the front two can and when i try and force them together, with my mouth shut there is is a gap of several mm. For example, if i wanted to bite my nails, i would not be able to do so in the normal way and would only be able to using my canines. I think this may be because of having the teeth filed - the ortho filed them into a nice straight line, however now the brace has moved the teeth, the line is no longer straight and the front two teeth are too short. At my last adjustment, i stressed there was a problem, however orthodontist blamed my difficult bite and said there was nothing she could do - this was the first time she has informed me my bite was difficult. i had no trace of an open bite before. she booked my next adjustment and said it would be to remove the brace and another 5 days later to fix retainer. At that adjustment, i mentioned that i did not want my teeth filed again and she, rather strangely said she didn't file teeth. At this point, i should mention that i am not fluent in the language where i live and so have a reasonable discussion - i also suspect she is quite a difficult person to deal with as have seen her rolling her eyes at other patients etc, however language ability has no bearing on the fact that the teeth have been filed - it was obvious after the treatment and from the before and after photographs. As bite worsened and second consultation drew near, i tried to contact the orthodontist in various ways, she was unavailable - sent email with photo pointing out problems and fact i could not eat normally, no reply.

I decided to get a second opinion. The second orthodontist said that there was an obvious problem with the bite and i must demand the first ortho fix it. I explained that i had tried to do so but had no luck and that the first ortho claimed treatment was finished. The second ortho was very kind and phoned the first one stressing the point that my teeth had no contact - i could hear squawks and protestations from the other side of the room. The second orthodontist told me that the original one firstly denied filing my teeth and secondly blamed the fact i had rearranged some of the adjustment appointments. It is correct i have rearranged a couple due to work, however the first ortho never informed me that this would cause a problem. The second ortho did not charge me for her help.

When i got home i received an email from the first ortho stating that the treatment was not finished as if she had never said it was- I have the appointment card she wrote me which lists the two appointments for debracing and 5 days later for retainer fixing and it's my opinion that if i had not sought a second opinion, she would have removed the brace - i told her about the bite problems at my last visit and she said nothing could be done and booked debracing. in the email she states that i have a difficult bite (at the initial appointment she said it was an easy fix) and again blames me for changing a couple of the appointments.

I am pretty sure, that the problems stem from the fact the front teeth were filed and are now too short.I cant see how an adult professional can lie about filing a patients teeth - the change in the length is apparent on the photos, was obvious to me and my husband after that appointment and surely will be evident on the xrays. Not sure what to do next. I finished paying for the treatment last year - so there is the financial aspect.

I'm not sure how the approach the matter of the filed teeth - how do i deal with this when the ortho denies point blank doing it - having teeth filed is a very memorable feeling and not something one can imagine - nor is the movie star (if rather unnatural) straight line of square edged teeth i walked out of her office with that day. Ideally i would prefer to change to another ortho as I'm worried about the health of my teeth - however having paid fully for the first treatment, thats a problem for me. Very grateful for any ideas about how to proceed. :(

[wildpig]

Sorry to hear what happened. I probably would get a few more second opinions as your case appears to be complicated. I would guess that the filing down is bad if that was not what needed. I am guessing that there might be a way to reverse that if needed by using things like crown and build up, etc. Of course that just means more cost and complications. Probably getting a few more opinions is worth it. then in the end, if you feel like you can't trust your old ortho, might have to just bite the bullet and cut the tie.... But definitely get several more opinions. Hopefully you will hear something consistent and hopefully they not all different opinions.

[scully]

Wow! What a horror story! I don't know where to begin. Your ortho seems like an impulsive person, filing and doing all that stuff to your teeth before your treatment was even finished, and it sounds like treatment was not finished at all if you can't properly chew your food.

Then there is the outright denial of an aspect of your treatment. Which was probably the wrong way to go so early on... filing is not really necessary most of the time, and should only be done sparingly and conservatively. The enamel on your teeth does not just grow back, so there should be a darn good reason to compromise it.

I have the dearest sweetest ortho ever, and have never had such a horrible experience, but I can certainly sympathize. Because she did do such damage to your teeth, you should have it documented, and you might have a civil case against her if you wanted to deal with the hassle factor of a small claims suit. I guess it would depend on how much money you have invested.

I would definitely cut the tie. Life is too short to deal with someone like that. Don't give her another opportunity to mess up your teeth. Get another opinion, and get a referral to another orthodontist. I have no doubt you can find someone better.

[horriblebite123]

my concern is that I'm not sure I have the budget for additional treatment.
If the filing of the teeth has led to this problem and it should not have been done, I'm wondering whether it's possible to force the orthodontist to pay for the problems to be fixed? She is denying she has filed the teeth, which i find almost more upsetting than the results as it's odd to have to deal with someone in this situation being totally dishonest when I remember the event so clearly, not just the filing but the change in the shape of the teeth - surely i could prove this with the photographs taken prior to treatment and after, or the scans?

The other matter is in instances where it is apparent from the scan taking at the first meeting, that treatment should not be carried out - for example if the jaw has too little space to move the teeth into the proper positions. If there are glaring indications at first consult that mean a good orthodontist should not proceed, but he or she does anyway, surely they should inform the client and not just go ahead.

9 months into the treatment i moved house to a town 5 hours away and asked the orthodontist if i could pay everything up and change to a local ortho. she said I couldn't...something about 'the system' so i had a 10 hour round trip to each adjustment. The lady i saw last week said that of course it is possible to change orthodontists due to moving - now I'm wondering if the frist one didn't want anyone else to see how treatment was progressing. :(

[kennyandrew85]

firstly, can this be fixed with crowns? the method where they file your tooth down to a peg and 'fit' a new tooth on?
Worst case scenario, if you teeth are straight and nothing else can be done, it's an option?

secondly, I would definitely 100% be asking for full compensation on every penny you spent through your original orthodontist.
Photocopy all agreements and debanding appointments.

Why should you pay someone to make your teeth worse.

[horriblebite123]

I'm so angry. I think that the only solution might be crowns...unless the teeth either side of the front two uppers are filed too, so the uppers are longer than these. My teeth now look like the 'before photos' in an advertisment and my teeth as they were prior to treatment,
the 'afters'.

I was shocked when the ortho claimed not to file teeth - why would she lie outright like that, it's bizarre. Why file the teeth in the first place when even I realise that filing teeth into a nice straight line is not a great idea less than half way through treatment as the teeth will only move out of line.

How do you act towards a person who is this dishonest - it's hard, as an adult, to accuse another adult in a professional environment of lying, it just feels bizarre - i was so shocked when she breezily claimed not to file teeth, that i felt too awkward to say anything.

I wonder if it comes to it, whether the xrays and photos can be used as evidence to force her to pay compensation - plenty of people also also my filed down teeth afterwards. Filing a mm or two off the front two teeth has a huge affect on ability to eat normally and worse, i have developed a lisp.

[kennyandrew85]

I would certainly think so, document everything and the dates they happened.

If you live in USA or UK where everyone gets sued for everything, you have a good chance.

I think you need to be firm with your ortho.
Write down a list of things you will say when you go in, and hold your ground.

You are a consumer, paying for a service, that has not been done properly, would you pay for a mechanic to fix your car that took 1 of your wheels off and left it off? No, you would say fix my bloody wheel or give me my money back so I can pay someone else to finish the job.

[horriblebite123]

I live in France, it's not as easy as the UK etc. but while it might be more difficult, I doubt someone can get away scott free with damaging teeth through neglect or the wrong treatment. I find it very difficult to hold my ground, however i think i should go to the appointment on Friday in case I do claim against her she claims that the bad result was my fault for not going to appointments, i need to show willing. That said, i will not left her take the brace off nor remove any of the brackets. It's very difficult to be cool calm and collected laying in the chair look up at some woman who claims not to have filed my teeth I know she did.

She will try and make things difficult for me i know - i have seen her and her assistants rolling their eyes at other patients behind their backs, if this occurs, i will just walk out and then try and make a claim against her rather than getting upset - if there is any dispute, then surely the scans can be used to make a judgement. I guess the only thing she could try and claim is that i filed the teeth myself however I did have someone with me before and after that appointment that saw the difference.

[scully]

I'm so angry. I think that the only solution might be crowns...unless the teeth either side of the front two uppers are filed too, so the uppers are longer than these. My teeth now look like the 'before photos' in an advertisment and my teeth as they were prior to treatment,
the 'afters'.

I was shocked when the ortho claimed not to file teeth - why would she lie outright like that, it's bizarre. Why file the teeth in the first place when even I realise that filing teeth into a nice straight line is not a great idea less than half way through treatment as the teeth will only move out of line.

How do you act towards a person who is this dishonest - it's hard, as an adult, to accuse another adult in a professional environment of lying, it just feels bizarre - i was so shocked when she breezily claimed not to file teeth, that i felt too awkward to say anything.

I wonder if it comes to it, whether the xrays and photos can be used as evidence to force her to pay compensation - plenty of people also also my filed down teeth afterwards. Filing a mm or two off the front two teeth has a huge affect on ability to eat normally and worse, i have developed a lisp.

You do not need to get crowns. You can get the teeth that were filed "built up" with tooth colored bonding material the same way a dentist would fix a chipped tooth. (I have one) The only reason you might need a crown is if the tooth was severely damaged, requiring a root canal. It doesn't sound like the root or pulp of your teeth is compromised, though. You need to get empowered and take charge of your own treatment. Ask any new orthodontist, doctor, etc. questions about your treatment, and get informed about your treatment options. If you have a bad gut feeling, GET OUT OF THERE and ask questions later. I can't stress this enough. I have heard of horror stories where people were just too embarrassed to tell a dentist "no" and leave. I know a guy who suffered through an unnecessary root canal, just because he was too embarrassed to tell the dentist he wanted a second opinion.

We don't have to live this way! Think of a dentist ortho or doctor as a skilled craftsperson with a service that they provide... if you look at it that way, you are ultimately a customer; not someone they can bully.

[scully]

my concern is that I'm not sure I have the budget for additional treatment.
If the filing of the teeth has led to this problem and it should not have been done, I'm wondering whether it's possible to force the orthodontist to pay for the problems to be fixed? She is denying she has filed the teeth, which i find almost more upsetting than the results as it's odd to have to deal with someone in this situation being totally dishonest when I remember the event so clearly, not just the filing but the change in the shape of the teeth - surely i could prove this with the photographs taken prior to treatment and after, or the scans?

The other matter is in instances where it is apparent from the scan taking at the first meeting, that treatment should not be carried out - for example if the jaw has too little space to move the teeth into the proper positions. If there are glaring indications at first consult that mean a good orthodontist should not proceed, but he or she does anyway, surely they should inform the client and not just go ahead.

9 months into the treatment i moved house to a town 5 hours away and asked the orthodontist if i could pay everything up and change to a local ortho. she said I couldn't...something about 'the system' so i had a 10 hour round trip to each adjustment. The lady i saw last week said that of course it is possible to change orthodontists due to moving - now I'm wondering if the frist one didn't want anyone else to see how treatment was progressing.

DO NOT GO BACK TO THIS ORTHO!!!!!!!!! She is definitely lying to you! There is no "system", and of course you can change doctors when you move for your own convenience. You also do not owe her for the entire treatment if you transfer before treatment is finished. My brother had to transfer orthos in high school because we moved, and we only got payed up to that time period, then the ortho he had sent all his treatment information to the new one in our new city. A good ortho will do that for you.

[kennyandrew85]

The bottom line is.. you need stand up for yourself.
Bring a friend with you if she is intimidating.

These people might be 'doctors' but it really is no different to paying for anything else in life. e.g a builder / mechanic etc..
Remember, she is also wasting your time and causing you distress.

My worry is, she has lied to you already and her attempts at fixing it may make it worse. So here's what I recommend you do:

1.) Get a signed letter from another orthodontist saying in his/her professional opinion the treatment is not complete.

2.) Take a copy of this to your current orthodontist and tell her you would like your money back or hear her plans on how to correct and complete the treatment.

3.) Get a 3rd consultation, even if you have to pay. Take your current orthos treatment plan with you.

10 minutes of embarassment is a small price to pay for a lifetime of good teeth.
You will never see this woman again after your braces are done so please stand up for yourself.

[sirwired]

During your next appointment, get a complete copy of your chart. While they are allowed to charge you a nominal fee to copy it, and they will retain the originals, you are entitled to a copy. Don't let them feed you a line about HIPAA or any other such legal nonsense... they are your medical records, and you are entitled to complete copy.

Really, if I were in your shoes, collecting my chart would be my final visit. I wouldn't trust her to finish the work at all, even for free. You can work out the financial details later, but in the meantime don't receive any more treatment from her.

[horriblebite123]

i will let you know how it goes. It turns out i have some insurance to hopefully cover legal costs, the insurance co are advising me.

[VioletJay]

Oh wow - I'm so sorry - that sounds awful! I'm so sad this has happened to you!

I would certainly seek legal advice straight away. Nothing like a lawyer to get the ball rolling in your direction. I can't believe she denied filing your teeth - does she live in la la land? You'd obviously remember something like that! I think I'd probably already have gone to a lawyer by now - if there's one thing I can't personally stand, it's being called a liar when I know I'm not...

I'll be thinking of you - hopefully this can be fixed without too much further ado! Best of luck!!