Retainers 24/7?

Message

#1 Post by **Boodles** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:41 am

Hi

I hope I have not done wrong as I also posted this on the 'Naked Tooth' board but as I have had such wonderful resposnses here in the past, and because it seems to be a busier board I thought I would post here too. Sorry if I should not have done so and I will remove it if required

My daughter (a very opinionated 15 year old) is coming to the end (hopefullly) of her time in braces. She has been told that on her next visit we will set a debanding date and then they showed her the retainers and said that she will hve to wear them 24/7 for three months. And that is where it all went horribly wrong

Having gone through extraction, expanders, surgery to expose an impacted eye tooth and elastics with little or no complaint she is flat refusing to wear the retainers 24/7 when she gets them. She says they are hideous and she would rather remain in braces.(I must admit I can see where she is coming from). She has been told that she will need an Essix on the bottom and a Hawley on the top.

My question is, is there any room for negotiation here? Her orthodontist is not very approachable to be honest (my posts in the past detail some other issues that we have had) so I know she will just say that there is no negotiation Do they really expect you to wear it 24/7b when they say this or is it just to get you to wear it 'lots'?

What if i tried to get her to wear it to school and in bed but to leave it out when she goes out at night or at weekends? She is so stubborn that I fear she will just refuse to wear it at all if I am not careful:(

Many thanks for any help you can offer

YouTube · #2 Post by **retainerjoe** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:00 am

sorry about that , it is your daugther an your monie an teeth , i have all ways ask my orthodontist everything, so yes tell your ortho what she has said, maybe he can do bonded retainers , an put the hawley an essix over the bonded such as my ortho did

#3 Post by **Audra** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:16 am

The documentation I received from my ortho states that retainer wear after braces come off is 24/7 for 6 MONTHS, then nightly for 6 months, then 2-3 times a week at night for the rest of my life. And I will not deviate from that as I am spending a fortune on these braces. I'm not exactly thrilled about wearing a retainer all day, but it's one of those things that goes along with orthodontics.

I'm sorry, but 3 months of 24/7 wear is not the end of the world. Your daughter will survive. Not wearing her retainer means her teeth will most likely shift and her time in braces will be for nothing.

#4 Post by **Andromeda** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:16 am

Yes bonded retainers may be a good idea as they are cemented to the backside of the teeth so no one can see them. I think retainer wear is really just up to the ortho. I've heard my ortho telling other patients that he only asks that we wear the retainers at night from the start and then there are some orthos who ask the patients to wear them 24/7. I can only assume it is the preference of the ortho because why should retainer wear differ that much between people? if all of my orthos patients wear them only at night and it works fine (Im assuming, or there would probably be a ton of complaints) then why should the same amount of retainer wear not work for someone else?

I would tell her to try to wear them as much as shes willing, at least at night while asleep and maybe when just lounging around the house and if her teeth begin to shift back then hopefully she will realize and commit to wearing them more.

#5 Post by **Boodles** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:46 am

Thank you so much for your replies.

Audra I totally agree with you and if it were me I would be wearing them religously. However trying to convince a very strong willed 15 year old is a very different matter. To be honest she does not did her heels in very often but when she does....and in this case she has. If I say that her teeth will move this will not make any difference. She just says she has had enough and if they move they move.

I don't think that it has helped that on the orthodontic practise website it says that after treatment retainers are worn for 6 months at night and that this is what she has been bargaining on.

Andromeda I agree with you. Why should it vary from pracise to practise or even person to person really if it is just a settling in period as such. My daughter's ortho did not speak as if her case was any differnet than every other she dealt with - it just kind o sounded like a standard speach.

Retainerjoe, I had not thought of both fixed and removable retainers. She was told that fixed retainers were not suitable as she had had expansion work done ...but maybe both might be an option.

Thank you all again

#6 Post by **Audra** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:09 am

Boodles, I'm sorry to hear that your daughter is digging her heels in over this issue, and that she doesn't seem to care if her teeth and bite relapse. She is digging her heels in over a 90 day period though, which is such a short period of time considering most people are in braces for at last 1.5 years. It seems such a small price to pay after the entire braces process.

I'm not sure what to advise you, other than maybe you have to dig your heels in and be a little hard handed also. She is 15 - not really old enough to realize the ramifications of this down the line. But she is also old enough to do whatever she wants with regard to wearing or not wearing her retainer.

If it were me, and she was my daughter, I would tell her that if she refused to wear her retainer and her teeth moved, she would owe me for the full cost of the braces. But that's just me

On the other hand, if she relapses, and in years to come it becomes important to her to fix it again, then the financial burden for doing that, and the inconvenience of being in braces again, will be entirely on her.

Maybe she should read some of the stories here of people who had braces earlier in life, didn't wear their retainers, and are going through the process again. Sometimes information that adolescents find out for themselves (rather than being directed by their parents) can cause them to make a decision for themselves. And sometimes, they just aren't interested and they must later suffer the consequences.

As others have suggested perhaps a bonded retainer is an option also.

#7 Post by **sauerkraut** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:58 am

Hi, I'm not sure I can offer much help as I don't honestly know the answer to whether you really must wear the retainers full time.

But I thought I'd offer my sympathies anyway, as I also have a 15-year-old daughter who has been great throughout treatment and is suddenly digging her heels in at the final hurdle. In her case she needs to wear elastics 24/7 to get the final millimetre of movement, and she keeps "forgetting". I feel like I'm turning into a terrible nag!

At our ortho practice they encourage teenagers to be as responsible as possible for their own treatment, and the technician has given my daughter a super pep talk about the more co-operative she is with the elastics the sooner she'll be rid of the braces. Thing is, my daughter is perfectly comfortable with her braces and really doesn't seem to mind how long they stay on. So that hasn't really worked!

Like you and others have said, you can't force your kids to have these things in their mouths. And it's hard to get them to understand long-term consequences. I'm living proof that your teeth relapse if you don't wear retainers (they were never even an option back in my day, though) and I've ended up needing surgery to correct my bite -- but for a 15-year-old that's probably something too many years away to care about right now! Maybe some immediate consequence (e.g. financial as has been suggested) might be the answer.

Is there maybe someone else at your ortho practice you can talk to better than the ortho herself -- a friendly technician or someone who might have a word with your daughter to explain the reasoning behind the retainers?

If all else fails, your solution of trying for maximum possible wear sounds like the best compromise. I wonder, though, if she doesn't wear the retainers enough, if they'll start being a poor fit, therefore uncomfortable to wear-- which could ultimately lead to her not wearing them at all

Hmm, maybe you could try using that as a positive argument: "You know, sweetheart, it will actually be more comfortable for you to wear them all the time..." Well, it might be worth a try

!

Hope you manage to get something sorted, and maybe even some helpful advice from your ortho

YouTube · #8 Post by **retainerjoe** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:44 am

i to had expanision done also , an i have both bonded an hawleys upper an lower , an at night i'm to still wear my positioner

#9 Post by **TumbleDryLow** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:07 am

Teenager logic is fascinating. So your daughter would rather remain in braces then wear a removable appliance?! What about them does she find "hideous"? Is it the fact the upper is a Hawley thus there is a visible metal band across the teeth? Would your daughter be willing to wear an Essex on the top? From what I understand they are pretty discreet.

As for the 24/7 thing, I think it depends on the case and chance of relapse. I was told I must wear my retainer 24/7 for the first year and then every night for the rest of my life. I was told this not only by my current ortho, but also by the 3 others I had consults with. All seemed very obsessed that I understand this long term commitment.

Good luck!

#10 Post by **Lela** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:26 am

Does the Hawley require more 24/7 time?

My daughters have the Essex retainers and had to wear them 24/7 for two weeks and nightly from then on. They both had the expansion done too and it did not change the time frame at all.

2 weeks of 24/7 and then nightly is the standard retainer instructions from our orthodontist. I guess it varies a lot from office to office.

#11 Post by **rolo** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:30 pm

I think you can get a hawley retainer with a clear plastic band rather than a metal band that goes over the front of the teeth that could be one worth asking about.

If she would rather stay in braces that six months than wear a retainer, ask if that's an option. A bonded retainer as backup sounds like great advice. I think I might also point out the discrepancy between info given to your daughter and on the website. They might have a good explanation?

#12 Post by **Boodles** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:37 pm

Once again thank you all for your responses.

Saurkraut I wish you well with your daughter. My DD was OK over the elastics despite hating them as she thought that it was the last stage. I think that is part of the problem as she feels that this was not the case as she now has to have the retainers.

Tumledrylow (great name by the way

) actually it is very difficult to argue with her logic in some ways. I said to her surely it is better to have removable retainers than a brace. She replied 'what is the advantage if I have to wear them 24/7 anyway, they may as well not be removable'. I said well at least you take them out to eat to which she replied that she has no problem eating with braces anyway and if she has to take them out to eat at school that is inconvenient and embarrassing! I think the main problem to be honest is the Hawley with the plate on the roof of her mouth and the fact that she will have to get used to something new. The ortho told her she would lisp for a day ro two. This is what they said when she had the quad helix in and she lisped all the time it was in and got teased a lot.

The financal threat will unfortunately not work as she said before any of this that she was going to pay me back as soon as she got a job (not that I would let her of course but this is why it does not work as a bargaining tool

)

I have been trying to think why we were both so convinced that her retainer wear would be night time only. As i said beofre it does say that on the practise's website but I had a feeling it was not only that. This afternoon I realised that it was the ortho that we originally saw who said it. The original ortho left not long after we started visiting and I am now pretty sure that when she explined the tratment that she said that it would involve wearing retainers at night when the braces came off.

I do wonder if he current braces could be used as a retainer for the first 3 months if no real pressure was put on the wires. Then she could move to removable ones when it is night time wear only. Of course I am no ortho but I cannot see why it would not be possible. Any thoughts?

Many many thanks to you all for your comments

#13 Post by **MakePinkNotWar** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:59 pm

I was a teenager not that long ago and I think maybe give her a day or two without talking about it then speak to her about it again. I know when I was a teenager my parents talking about things and wanting to figure it out right then and there made me HATE whatever it was and say NO regardless of what it was. I think it is the way of teenagers to be nonchalant about things and for adults to want to figure everything out right away. After a day or two (maybe more depending on your daughter) of not talking to her about it might help. Does she have any friends with braces? Maybe you could talk to them and they can talk to her. I know many of my friends who wore retainers (all different kinds) and I think the fact that other people wore them made them feel okay about it.

I really think she would rather have a retainer than braces for three months. I think it is her just upset about what the orthodontist has said so she is overreacting (I don't mean that in a rude way) and when she has time to process the new news she will rather have the retainer. My sister is a teenager and does this ALL the time and I have done my fair share of this when I was a teenager too. I think it is a teenagers way of showing their disdain for what adults say/want.

If you talk to your orthodontist you could see if a more discrete retainer is available or not. Also, if she is worried about lunch..she could go to the bathroom before lunch..take it out (put it in her backpack or something)..go to lunch then after lunch go back to the bathroom to put it back in. Then no one sees her taking it out or putting it back in.

By the way..I do not know your daughter at all so you can decide if my advice applies to her or not! I was just sharing my experience with teenagers...since I was one less than a year ago.

#14 Post by **sauerkraut** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:44 pm

Seeing if she could keep the (inactivated) braces for longer as a form of retainer sounds like a great idea to me, if she's happy with that -- tho I'm no ortho either, of course!

I think it's also a good point that she might not like the idea of having to get used to something new. I often wonder if that's part of the situation with my daughter, too. If she wears the elastics then that brings forward the day the brackets are removed, and over the past couple of years the braces have sort of become part of who she is. Maybe as friends start finishing their treatment and moving on to retainers that will provide more of an incentive. I'm sure MakePinkNotWar is right: peer pressure counts more than attempts at persuasion from the grown-ups!

#15 Post by **starzz** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:04 pm

I think she is mad that the new ortho says to wear them 24/7 when the original ortho had promised only at night. She may be afraid of being teased again like she was with the expander. She may fear the retainers will also cause a lisp or otherwise effect her speech. Are her concerns more about effect on speech than cosmetic issues?