Plaque, tartar and brown stains

[eniamrehc]

Hi,

I’m in my mid-thirties, had my braces for about 2 months, and have been through 2 tightenings. The pain and soreness are bearable, but things haven’t been going too well.

A week or so after the braces were installed (not sure if this is the correct term to use), a prior filling on my molar came off and the sensitivity was really bad, so my ortho had to cut the wire and remove the bracket to get the filling redone. Then a month later, I’ve got a re-infection of a tooth (beside the one that got the filling done) that had a root canal and crown done. I had to have another root canal done, so no wires on that side of my mouth.

That’s on top on of plaque and tartar build ups and gingivitis within the first week of getting the braces installed. It’s been extremely frustrating but I can’t stop the procedure since I’ve got gaps between my teeth because I had to have teeth extracted to make space.

Oh and I’ve not eaten sweets or chocolates, and have significantly cut down on sugary foods, but I still need my one cup of coffee every morning. I brush and use mouthwash in the mornings, brush after every meal, including after snacks, and go through the whole brush, floss (now that my teeth are more spaced out, I’m using an interdental), brush individual bracket and mouthwash routine every night. Also, I just had a cleaning done by a dentist a week ago.

I’m finding brown stains in between and on the sides (of the teeth beside an extraction side) of my teeth. And just a few days ago, I’m finding brown stains surround the brackets.

I’d just like to know if I’m the only one going through this (the whole plaque, tartar and brown stain part)? Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong? Will I get permanently stained teeth surrounding a lighter shaded space where the brackets were when my braces come off? I’m seeing my orthodontist in 2 weeks, but would just like to get some reassurance and/ or advice. Thanks!

[EmilyTravels]

What kind of mouthwash are you using? There are a couple of ingredients that can cause brown staining on the teeth even when you are doing everything right. One of these is CPC. Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetylpyridinium_chloride. I forget what the other is but I believe that it is normally only present in the high-powered prescription mouthwashes -- like the one my oral surgeon gave me while my jaw was wired shut. CPC in mouthwashes is very common and caused staining to my teeth. Fortunately, I had a dental hygiene appointment and the hygienist was able to get all the brown off, so don't panic. But do check your mouthwash and change to a non-CPC formula.

I have also read that stannous fluoride, a type of fluoride found in some toothpastes, can stain the teeth. Check your ingredients!

[eniamrehc]

I’m alternating between two different mouth washes from oral b, one with fluoride and one without. I just checked and both contain CPC! Argh! I just had my teeth cleaned a week ago and the stains are back with a vengeance! I guess I’ll have to wait for the next clean in 3 months? Or should I get another cleaning done sooner?

[EmilyTravels]

Other forms of fluoride, Sodium fluoride for instance, do not cause staining, THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR. THIS IS SPAM PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR.. I think it's just the Stannous fluoride form, so check for that. But yeah, many mouthwashes do contain CPC. I got rid of all mine that did and bought others that do not. It does seem to be helping.

I don't know if you should get another cleaning right away or just wait for your next regular one -- that may depend on what you can afford and how miserable you are with the staining. I hate getting my teeth cleaned since I am a dental weenie so would probably just wait, but that is your decision.

I hope it's the CPC that is causing your issues; if so, then stopping that should keep things from getting too much worse before your next cleaning, anyway.

Good Luck!

[eniamrehc]

Thank you so much for all that info EmilyTravels! I’ve also just read SirWired’s guide. I’m gonna have to go hunt for new mouthwash and toothpaste later, and hope that the brown stains doesn’t get any worse.

[joicetti]

I had the same issue with a mouthwash (provided through my ortho's office when I started treatment no less) causing brown stains on my teeth. Over the course of 2 months I developed staining that was so severe that from certain angles it looked like I was missing teeth. Ironic when you have metal contraptions in your mouth to fix your teeth.

I did some research and figured out it was probably the mouthwash causing the problem, since I'd started using the bottle of Crest Pro-Health and that had a reputation for causing stains in 'a small amount of people'. When I talked to my ortho office about it at first they tried to make it seem like it was my hygiene routine and maybe I wasn't brushing correctly in between the brackets. Yes right brushing 3 times a day including using an interdental brush between teeth is going to cause brown marks and staining.

Like you I couldn't wait for my next cleaning. The hygienist had to work on my teeth for 2 solid hours to get all of the gunk off. I went back to my usual mouthwash (Listerine Mouthwash in Cool Mint) and never had the problem again.

[eniamrehc]

2 hours?! Oh gosh!

You’re accurate in discribing the stains! Although I don’t look like I have missing teeth, I do look like I’ve got gaps between my teeth. And they look awful!

In fact, I wasn’t due for a clean yet, but the stains were so bad that I thought I’d developed decay within the two months since I’d gotten my braces (X-ray before braces showed that my teeth were okay). At that time, the molar that the huge stain was on was a little loose, so I panicked and called the clinic, and although the receptionist told me that decay takes years, they got me in for a general dentist to take a look. Found out it was just stain, and the dentist did some cleaning and removed some of the stains I was concerned about. But then I came home, and a couple of days later, discovered more!

Glad to know it could be due to the mouthwash. I tried oral b after getting braces because the mouthwashes don’t contain alcohol. I’m now switching back to listerine total care.

By the way joicetti, when you had your teeth cleaned by the hygienist, was it with the archwires on or off?

[EmilyTravels]

You're very welcome.

It's really unacceptable that orthodontist's offices actually recommend mouthwashes that can cause staining. I believe it, though, because when I had my appointment yesterday, I mentioned to the ortho. tech. that I'd just had my teeth cleaned (archwires in, BTW, no problem), I told her that I had a lot of staining that I thought was probably due to the mouthwash (Crest Pro-Health) I was originally using right after getting braces for one month. She was shocked and didn't know anything about CPC. She said that when she goes to the dentist she also has a lot of staining on the lingual (back) side of her teeth and had no idea that her mouthwash might have contributed. She planned to check the ingredients in the one she is using and change if she saw CPC in the list!

[joicetti]

Stains on the lingual side only is very lucky. In my case I looked like I had severe periodontitis and bone loss at spots where the teeth meet the gums as well as staining around the brackets so it seemed like I'd had a few teeth knocked out at certain angles. I had to attend a wedding with my teeth like that, as if the braces weren't bad enough.

I too find that dentist and orthodontist offices aren't aware. When my ortho office pushed back I truly believe it was out of disbelief. Every technician pretty much told me it wasn't possible and that it had to be how I was cleaning my teeth (and not doing a very good job). Then when I mentioned it to the actual ortho he had heard of the problem. "Man that Crest Pro-Health stuff..." I was like your office puts that stuff the welcome package! I'm gonna guess a memo went out to change that for future patients.

I've heard of this happening to tons of people. I honestly don't know how they still sell the stuff. There are so many complaints from people who have switched to it because it's alcohol-free only to start having this weirdness happen.

I've always had my arch wire off for my cleanings except the first one. I found that the dental hygienist at my former dentist office half-assed the cleaning as a result. Instead of working around the wire, she used it as an excuse for not being able to reach stuff, so my cleaning wasn't as thorough. Then I switched dental offices and have always had the wire removed just to avoid any excuses future forward.

[eniamrehc]

Where I'm at, general dentists (we don't have techs or hygienists) do everything from scaling, polishing, fillings, to root canals, although we have the option to go to a specialist. And my orthodontist was the one who installed my braces, is the one who does the tightening every month (not a tech), and also the one who said I could use any type of mouthwash available. Meh.

I thought the stains were due to not being able to clean my teeth properly because of the braces, but when a particularly large one appeared, and I pointed it out to my orthodontist (that was before I joined this forum and thought it was a decay) during the last tightening, she said she'll monitor because she wanted my teeth to straighten out a little more before having my teeth cleaned. Of course, I panicked when the tooth started to feel loose after the tightening, went to a dentist when I couldn't get an appointment with orthodontist, and found out it was only a stain.

I just switched from oral b back to listerine total, which contains alcohol, and it burns! Argh! I guess it's a small price to pay for not having stained teeth. My orthodontist mentioned that she'd want my teeth to be cleaned when the archwires are out, so I didn't know if it was effective to get them cleaned again with my archwires in!

@EmilyTravels
After reading that you've got your teeth cleaned with the archwires in, I'm gonna schedule the earliest appointment I can get with my dentist for a cleaning!

@joicetti
I think my dentist and orthodontist think that I'm not cleaning properly as well, even though I'm extremely religious about it. I'm glad you're able to get your stains off; I'm sure it was distressing for you the way your teeth looked. Mine's not as bad as yours, and I'm already worrying so much over it. I'm hoping that mine are also stains that can be removed and with the change in mouthwash, the problem doesn't recur.

[EmilyTravels]

My dental hygienist did a great job cleaning my teeth with the wires in. She said she does it all the time. She was very through, did manual scraping and then the ultrasonic tool (which I hate because it sounds like the drill...shudder!) She also polished at least the parts of my teeth she could get to, like the lingual side. The only thing she didn't do was floss my teeth.

When the dentist came into the room to do a quick look after the cleaning, she said she would have preferred the wires to be out. But it didn't seem to bother the hygienist at all and would have been very inconvenient for me, as my orthodontist is only in the office in my town one day a week. So I'd have to manage to schedule three appointments in one day (arch wires off, cleaning, arch wires back on) in order not to lose a week in braces. And I have to take the bus to my ortho (don't have a car), so that would be just about impossible to get everything done in one day.

I also asked the ortho tech, and she said people have cleanings with their wires in most of the time. So...hopefully your dentist doesn't complain too much!

[eniamrehc]

So I managed to get an appointment with my regular dentist yesterday. Although he was surprised to see me again, he looked through my mouth thoroughly after I'd explained my concerns to him, and then informed me that the stains that I see between my teeth are all arrested decay (decay that started and stopped) and can't be cleaned or removed. He explained that the brown spots between my teeth are showing now because of my extractions and because the teeth are moving due to the braces, and would not be as obvious when my teeth straighten out.

Of course, I was unconvinced! So I found another dentist outside the practice for a second opinion. And got the same explanation. Heh. Well, this dentist explained a little more throughly, knowing that I was seeking a second opinion, and likened arrested decay to scar tissues that form when we injure our skin. She also explained that there was no way I could get them removed, unless I want to use fillings, but she does not feel comfortable destroying healthy teeth for that purpose. Although this particular dentist did mention that mouthwashes that contain chlorhexidine do stain if used over long periods, though she didn't say anything about CPC.

So yea, the brown stains I was so sure were caused by mouthwashes are not stains and cannot be removed. And both dentist insinuated that I spend too much time staring into my own mouth! Ha!

[EmilyTravels]

So yea, the brown stains I was so sure were caused by mouthwashes are not stains and cannot be removed. And both dentist insinuated that I spend too much time staring into my own mouth! Ha!

Awwww, bummer. I am sorry! I was hoping it was the mouthwash, but that was just a guess. I'm glad you got a second opinion just in case, but sorry it is not something that can be removed.

[eniamrehc]

Yea, it’s kinda crappy that the stains cannot be removed. I’m hoping they won’t be as obvious when my teeth straightens out, and that is gonna take some time. Appreciate your help!