The never ending story of Clo's braces

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#106 Post by **delightfulde** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:45 am

Clo,

As I read you story I almost cried. You have clearly persevered through soo much. Please keep reaching for your ultimate goal of great teeth!

#107 Post by **Chris** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:26 pm

I now experience what a bite not being stable means. If I
don't wear my retainers for even only some hours, it feels like my teeth shifted
already and my retainers are more difficult to put in. So, I wear them about all
the time. I also experience this feeling like my teeth are now a lot less, how do
I tell this, rigid. Some gum recession here and there, some teeth more tender.
Especially those teeth that were extruded too much. I think I'll better not wait
any longer and indeed see the docs soon. Also because I still have those bone
anchors and after them being there for more than 2 years now, they hurt from
time to time. I think I'd better start pretty soon, so they can be used again. If
not, the bone anchors will need to be removed and then no further treatment
is possible. Arg, it is such a shame that my treatments weren't more successful.

Oh boy

sorry to hear the sad news. How come they have you in retainers...won't they start from scratch anyway or are they going to work with what you have?

Those bone anchors, if I remember were in the upper palate, right? That must be hard when you are chewing on your food.

I had mine behind the lower second molar and I couldn't wait to get it out as it was sore even there! My gums always were irritated there.

Have you thought more about the jaw surgery option? Or are you still steering away from that thought?

Chris

#108 Post by **Clo** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:49 am

I was refering to the bone anchors above my molars on the outside that are
still there, like in this pic I took back then :

So, they do not interfere with me chewing or anything. It just feels like that
area wants them to go. No real pain, just some irritation from time to time.

My retainers were given by ortho 3. I'll wear those until ortho 4 starts doing
his work. Frankly, I do not know what will happen later on. Or I'll stop here,
or ortho 4 will start a new attempt to intrude followed by braces. But first I
need to see that jaw doc. Surgery ? I do know this is probably the best way
to give me back a good bite, but I still refuse to go that route, because of ...
priorities of life.

#109 Post by **Chris** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Ouch, those look quite uncomfortable. I thought you had bone anchors inside on the palate also. Well, thats a relief..somewhat.

Ok, keep us posted. Wish you well.

Chris

#110 Post by **mjj929** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:50 pm

Hi, I've read through your story and quite a story it is! Do you have x-rays you can post?

#111 Post by **Saysee** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:54 am

I'm new to braces and to this forum. I found your saga and just want you to know I'm interested and am hoping for the best for you. Keep writing, please.

#112 Post by **RussUK** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:27 am

Clo, I check this thread all the time wondering how you are getting on but you haven't posted for a long time. Love to hear that you are OK.

#113 Post by **Clo** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:52 am

Hi,

thanks for being interested.
But I fear I have not any news. So the situation did not change since I posted some
time ago. I still have those bone anchors. But also I still didn't decide if I will try
another treatment or if I will keep my bite being like that. The reason I didn't decide
yet is probably because I am not certain if yet another treatment will give me some
improvement. It has everything to do with believing in the expertise and capability
of the ortho. I admit, I just don't believe. Even still wearing my retainers a lot can't
prevent that some teeth did shift a bit and that my teeth don't look so well aligned
anymore. My bite is still a mess. Anterior open bite is bad and when I bite down,
only 1 set, sometimes 2 sets of molars touch. I manage to eat well, but can't
use any of my front teeth. So, my bite is bad, and I fear those bone anchors can't
stay much longer. So I think I'll need to decide pretty soon what I'll do. If only
some ortho crossed my path and could convince me he/she has the knowledge to
make my bite better again.

#114 Post by **SugarMagnolia** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:56 pm

Ah Clo, I came across your story recently and was disturbed that it had been so long that you were away. I do sincerely hope that a solution that works for you is in the near future!

#115 Post by **RedDress** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:36 pm

Hey, Clo, thank you for sharing your story, very valuable information for many readers. I read it all and it was like a thriller movie.
I have some comments, if you do not mind. I am not an orthodontist, but some things you understand just from common sence.

In your case, I was very surprised, that they left your wisdom teeth and did not suggest extracting it. Mine were all sentenced to be extracted upon my very arrival to the US and upon my very first visit to a dentist. but the time I started to look for ortho treatment I was absolutely wisdom teeth free, which seems to be an absolute requirement here.
But that is one thing.
In your case, one more thing sounds strange. Your first ortho suggested to allign your front teeth and then pull them back. Well, aligning the teeth, while there is no room in the mouth for them to accomodate a straight line is almost surely leads to the teeth being fan or overjetted.
You do not have to be a dentist to understand it.
And then, after in fact became overjetted they tried to "pull them back" with elastics.
Elastics are attached to the molars. They are pulling the front teeth to the back, but again, there is no room for them to move. Is not it obvious that what is going to happen would be - you molars will move, instead of the front teeth, that do not have room to move? I am just trying to figure how could your ortho fail to see that?
Why they did not suggest something to make the room for closing overjet, something like filing teeth on either side? Why they did not even remove the wisdom teeth?
There is one more question. did you consider an ortho who is experienced with Invisalign? In my experience, those ortho who practice Invisalign usually tend to be more advanced. I am not taling about any docs, I am talking about orthos who are advanced enough to see many applications to Invisalign. sorry for the messy post.

#116 Post by **Clo** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:38 am

Hi,

hmmm, I appreciate your comments. Some are not bad, some are spot on.

I too sat back to think about what really went wrong. What you say about aligning creating the overjet is correct. One page 1, I posted pics of my moulds as things were initially. Aligning my laterals made the arch fuller and seeking place, creating an overjet. Plus there was already a "hidden" overjet. Left side upper molars would need to move back "one notch". Right side "half a notch". Class 2 bite. The biggest mistake I think was my first ortho thinking that this could be corrected by using simple class 2 elastics to retract all upper teeth at the same time. Nothing really moved, except my molars, but then only vertically. They were extruded due to all the elastics. So, the overjet was still there, but now I got an open bite too. Once created, not ortho 1, 2 and 3 were able to close it. The way I see it is that my orthos may be good in aligning teeth. Maybe even correcting a bite of growing patients. But they did a lousy job concerning correcting the bite of an adult.

I think my case was a borderline case. Jaw surgery versus ortho treatment. Once my teeth were aligned they could have suggested extracting upper premolars to be able to retract the front uppers and leave the molars the way they were. Extracting wisdom teeth would not have helped, the issues were/are in the front. Initially. The ideal treatment would have been aligning my teeth and then getting a BSSO. Lower jaw moved forward. And then aligning and fixing the bite.

Unless I am missing something, Invisalign can indeed align well, but can't at all correct bite issues, certainly not the ones I have. It can't correct a horizontal discrepancy of 6 mm (overjet) and a vertical discrepancy of also 6 mm (open bite).

Thanks for your interest. Once more it makes one wonder why they didn't see the bad things happening and make better treatment plans ...

#117 Post by **rhomboid** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:05 am

Your case appears to be the most extreme professional ineptitude that I can possibly imagine; however your tenacity and courage is absolutely incredible. I wish that there was something that I could do for you other than encourage you to regroup and continue. You seem wonderful, God Bless you and best of luck.

#118 Post by **Clo** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:42 am

Thank you !

#119 Post by **rhomboid** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:38 pm

Thank you for sharing such a well documented story.

#120 Post by **RedDress** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:01 am

Clo wrote: The biggest mistake I think was my first ortho thinking that this could be corrected by using simple class 2 elastics to retract all upper teeth at the same time. Nothing really moved, except my molars, but then only vertically.
...

I understood it, your depiction was very well. That is why I told you - they were pulling teeth without thinking of where they want to move them? THERE was NO ROOM THERE. they did not even extract wisdom teeth. This was really strange. What country is that? The reason I am wondering - I have similar problem, though in my case they suggested right away that I have to create some room to align my teeth without making them more overjet. One guy suggested extraction, anotherr two suggested slenderizing (filing all the teeth on the sides to create space).

Clo wrote:
Unless I am missing something, Invisalign can indeed align well, but can't at all correct bite issues, certainly not the ones I have. It can't correct a horizontal discrepancy of 6 mm (overjet) and a vertical discrepancy of also 6 mm (open bite)....

Invisalign can do a lot of things, and actually a skillful and experienced ortho can do the same things with invisalign than with braces. Some even claim that Invisalign has more potential.
Most ortho say that invisalign can not correct the bite because they are not willing to admit that they are not experienced with it.

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