Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

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jawregret1
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:43 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#16 Postby jawregret1 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:54 am

I later asked my surgeon if only the lower jaw could have been done, and he said yes. But he thought my profile would be better with double + genio because lower wouldn't really change it.

Impacting the upper jaw absolutely ruined my smile. I show barely any upper teeth when I smile and I show all the way up to the gum line of my lower teeth. I don't know how that is seen as okay. I also show zero upper teeth at rest and only lower teeth up to the lower gumline. I'm 21 for God's sake. It looks like I have an old lady smile where my upper and lower lip droop and sag due to the impaction and possibly genioplasty.

I just spent thousands of dollars on orthodontics, surgery, time of my life, and my smile is worse? My teeth show is awful? I have nice straight teeth that are hidden. I really have no idea how any of this is okay.

jawregret1
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:43 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#17 Postby jawregret1 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:55 am

GGGUNIT wrote:Don't mean to be insensitive but it looks like you have a lot of body fat on your face and it wouldn't surprise me if your face leaned out, your chin and jaw would look amazing (jaw would taper sharper from the front). Your chin does look a bit out of place and lumpy, but what does it look like with a resting face? I personally wouldn't worry too much about your smile.



I'm quite thin but I have a lot of facial fat. It's not easily lost, it's just my face.

jawregret1
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:43 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#18 Postby jawregret1 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:58 am

SingleJawMelb wrote:No. But it's interesting that your ortho suggested you only needed one and your surgeon did both. My surgey decisions was left up to my surgeon and I wasn't given any suggestions about what would be needed.

It's a 2D image so I really can't say that you look worse and it's bad your surgeon did more work than necessary. Mine was one of those conservative Australian doctors that do as little as possible - prob so I don't end up in this position?

What has your surgeon said post op? Can you go for another consult elsewhere?



I have an appointment with my surgeon this week. I'm going with my mother just because she completely agrees with what I'm saying, so I'd like someone to back me up so he doesn't brush me off. My mom's 50 and has better tooth show than me lol.

I have spoken to some other doctors and showed them the x-rays and lateral cephs from pre-op and before and after photos and they seem to think that toying with my upper jaw was completely unnecessary.

snapdresser
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Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#19 Postby snapdresser » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:14 am

There seems to be some pretty noticeable soft tissue changes. Your smile doesn't pull up the same on the top. I wonder if that'll get better as time goes on. If it does, it seems like it could help your tooth show on the top a fair bit.
No braces
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jawregret1
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:43 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#20 Postby jawregret1 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:18 am

snapdresser wrote:There seems to be some pretty noticeable soft tissue changes. Your smile doesn't pull up the same on the top. I wonder if that'll get better as time goes on. If it does, it seems like it could help your tooth show on the top a fair bit.


I hope so, but I'm doubtful. An almost 3.5 mm impaction without a gummy smile is significant. I'll basically forever show 3 mm less of upper teeth now. I don't think I have particularly large teeth either, so it's bothering me a lot. That's the length of half of my lateral incisors. Its significant.

jawregret1
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Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#21 Postby jawregret1 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:19 am

https://imgur.com/a/fEmSU

Pictures of mouth now. This is really bad. Also, yes my upper lip is naturally huge and always has been, the swelling is pretty much gone.

snapdresser
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Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#22 Postby snapdresser » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:30 am

People pay big money for lips like that! :) Can you smile any bigger than in that previous pic that you sent? It looks like you're not smiling as big as in the pre-op pic, or maybe it's that the muscles are now pulling in a slightly different direction. Maybe you have some muscle mobility issues still resolving in the top? Doing some impaction on the top to offset pulling forward the maxilla is par for the course and maybe they didn't predict the muscle changes. 6mm advancement and 3.5mm impaction doesn't sound crazy tho, so it's a bit puzzling :|
No braces
1-piece LeFort I + BSSO + Sliding Genio on 10 JUNE 2015!
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jawregret1
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:43 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#23 Postby jawregret1 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:53 am

It was 3mm advancement in the upper jaw and 3.5mm impaction. So they impacted more than they advanced, but I had no gummy smile...

snapdresser
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Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#24 Postby snapdresser » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:11 am

Ah, it was your mandible that came forward 6mm. I show about 50% upper tooth and 50% lower tooth if I try to let my lips open a bit at rest (tho they're naturally closed now, as yours should be) but I'm not sure what the ideal is. I've only seen ideal tooth-show when smiling. So what's your plan of action? You trying to get a graft to pull your maxilla down? I think that has a lot higher chance of not healing up as well, tho I could be wrong. I suspect your surgeon will make you wait 9 months or a year before they're willing to go back in. How does your profile compare? That's where I really saw the improvement for my case.
No braces
1-piece LeFort I + BSSO + Sliding Genio on 10 JUNE 2015!
Image

SingleJawMelb
Posts: 229
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#25 Postby SingleJawMelb » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:16 am

jawregret1 wrote:
SingleJawMelb wrote:No. But it's interesting that your ortho suggested you only needed one and your surgeon did both. My surgey decisions was left up to my surgeon and I wasn't given any suggestions about what would be needed.

It's a 2D image so I really can't say that you look worse and it's bad your surgeon did more work than necessary. Mine was one of those conservative Australian doctors that do as little as possible - prob so I don't end up in this position?

What has your surgeon said post op? Can you go for another consult elsewhere?



I have an appointment with my surgeon this week. I'm going with my mother just because she completely agrees with what I'm saying, so I'd like someone to back me up so he doesn't brush me off. My mom's 50 and has better tooth show than me lol.

I have spoken to some other doctors and showed them the x-rays and lateral cephs from pre-op and before and after photos and they seem to think that toying with my upper jaw was completely unnecessary.


Ok maybe you need to go down the legal route? If he's doing unnecessary procedures and other surgeons agree - time to get some procedures put in place?

jawregret1
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:43 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#26 Postby jawregret1 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:21 am

snapdresser wrote:Ah, it was your mandible that came forward 6mm. I show about 50% upper tooth and 50% lower tooth if I try to let my lips open a bit at rest (tho they're naturally closed now, as yours should be) but I'm not sure what the ideal is. I've only seen ideal tooth-show when smiling. So what's your plan of action? You trying to get a graft to pull your maxilla down? I think that has a lot higher chance of not healing up as well, tho I could be wrong. I suspect your surgeon will make you wait 9 months or a year before they're willing to go back in. How does your profile compare? That's where I really saw the improvement for my case.


My profile is not retrusive but still weird. They shouldn't have touched the upper jaw at all, and the chin looks strange.

Pre-op: https://i.imgur.com/Mz9B1FV.png
Post-op: https://i.imgur.com/9jNUZoU.png

GGGUNIT
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:37 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#27 Postby GGGUNIT » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:58 pm

jawregret1 wrote:
snapdresser wrote:Ah, it was your mandible that came forward 6mm. I show about 50% upper tooth and 50% lower tooth if I try to let my lips open a bit at rest (tho they're naturally closed now, as yours should be) but I'm not sure what the ideal is. I've only seen ideal tooth-show when smiling. So what's your plan of action? You trying to get a graft to pull your maxilla down? I think that has a lot higher chance of not healing up as well, tho I could be wrong. I suspect your surgeon will make you wait 9 months or a year before they're willing to go back in. How does your profile compare? That's where I really saw the improvement for my case.


My profile is not retrusive but still weird. They shouldn't have touched the upper jaw at all, and the chin looks strange.

Pre-op: https://i.imgur.com/Mz9B1FV.png
Post-op: https://i.imgur.com/9jNUZoU.png


In my opinion and aesthetically speaking, a larger BSSO with vertical and slightly forward genio without any maxilla change would have looked the best. Generally, people that get their maxilla impacted have long faces with steep jaw angles, but you don't have those it seems. Your maxilla also doesn't look recessed but these things are impossible to tell from just an ordinary picture and I'm not a professional. I would say your lower jaw is still retrusive, relative to your face. This is something you should be striving for aesthetically: https://gyazo.com/3db3b329abfc1d0ff62e752ee31e6252 I moved the upper lip back and extended the chin downwards a bit and brought your mandible forward. Even if you leave your maxilla as is and bring the mandible forward the difference is hugely positive.

You definitely do look better post op. But you are right about the results being aesthetically underwhelming.


SingleJawMelb
Posts: 229
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:48 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#29 Postby SingleJawMelb » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:11 am

GGGUNIT wrote:
jawregret1 wrote:
snapdresser wrote:Ah, it was your mandible that came forward 6mm. I show about 50% upper tooth and 50% lower tooth if I try to let my lips open a bit at rest (tho they're naturally closed now, as yours should be) but I'm not sure what the ideal is. I've only seen ideal tooth-show when smiling. So what's your plan of action? You trying to get a graft to pull your maxilla down? I think that has a lot higher chance of not healing up as well, tho I could be wrong. I suspect your surgeon will make you wait 9 months or a year before they're willing to go back in. How does your profile compare? That's where I really saw the improvement for my case.


My profile is not retrusive but still weird. They shouldn't have touched the upper jaw at all, and the chin looks strange.

Pre-op: https://i.imgur.com/Mz9B1FV.png
Post-op: https://i.imgur.com/9jNUZoU.png


In my opinion and aesthetically speaking, a larger BSSO with vertical and slightly forward genio without any maxilla change would have looked the best. Generally, people that get their maxilla impacted have long faces with steep jaw angles, but you don't have those it seems. Your maxilla also doesn't look recessed but these things are impossible to tell from just an ordinary picture and I'm not a professional. I would say your lower jaw is still retrusive, relative to your face. This is something you should be striving for aesthetically: https://gyazo.com/3db3b329abfc1d0ff62e752ee31e6252 I moved the upper lip back and extended the chin downwards a bit and brought your mandible forward. Even if you leave your maxilla as is and bring the mandible forward the difference is hugely positive.

You definitely do look better post op. But you are right about the results being aesthetically underwhelming.


Just wondering where you get your information from?

GGGUNIT
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:37 am

Re: Reversing jaw surgery: has anyone ever heard of this?

#30 Postby GGGUNIT » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:20 am

SingleJawMelb wrote:
GGGUNIT wrote:
jawregret1 wrote:
My profile is not retrusive but still weird. They shouldn't have touched the upper jaw at all, and the chin looks strange.

Pre-op: https://i.imgur.com/Mz9B1FV.png
Post-op: https://i.imgur.com/9jNUZoU.png


In my opinion and aesthetically speaking, a larger BSSO with vertical and slightly forward genio without any maxilla change would have looked the best. Generally, people that get their maxilla impacted have long faces with steep jaw angles, but you don't have those it seems. Your maxilla also doesn't look recessed but these things are impossible to tell from just an ordinary picture and I'm not a professional. I would say your lower jaw is still retrusive, relative to your face. This is something you should be striving for aesthetically: https://gyazo.com/3db3b329abfc1d0ff62e752ee31e6252 I moved the upper lip back and extended the chin downwards a bit and brought your mandible forward. Even if you leave your maxilla as is and bring the mandible forward the difference is hugely positive.

You definitely do look better post op. But you are right about the results being aesthetically underwhelming.


Just wondering where you get your information from?


Read a lot and talk to a lot of jaw surgery nerds.


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