non invasive solution possible?

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#1 Post by **subterfuge** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:15 pm

I think I have an overbite and slightly recessed jaws, with teeth that point inwards,

I think that, combined with my small jaw/chin makes me look a little weird, and
I think that my facial tissue isn't supported enough as it should be.
Cheeks sag too much around the side of mouth and look heavy and not taught/tight like it
should be.

I look better when I pull up the skin around my cheekbones with my fingers as if
to give my self a little 'facelift', lol.

From what I read, this is a common effect in people with such dental issues.

Im a male, and i'm 28 from the UK

I deeply regret not doing something about this years ago, but at the moment it consumes my thoughts.

I'm yet to see an orthodontist or anything, but I plan to get the ball rolling soon, partly due to
some appointments i'm currently due regarding possible sleep apnea. (I plan to try to get a referral )

I guess that the best solution would be orthagnathic surgery, but that is a huge commitment as i'm
sure you're all aware.

I'm wondering about exactly how much use other options might be.
I don't just want straight teeth. I want to change the structure enough to give me a more balanced
face.

I'm pretty sure that invisalign wouldn't be able to do much more than make my teeth straight. Correct?

What about Damon braces? Might they be a better option?

I've attached some pics, but they're likely not at all usefull, but they're all I have on this laptop. (broken PC and no proper camera)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/iyv7.jpg/

#2 Post by **fosterp** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:27 am

Looks like a unilateral crossbite.

Hard to tell if surgery is needed b/c we can't see your molar relationship.

What you are doing by lifting your face up is simply giving your jaw more definition and making cheeks appear fuller.

You can achieve the same effect by losing weight.

#3 Post by **agrace90** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:22 pm

I don't think you need to lose weight...I have cheeks and can't afford to lose any weight. I have seen my cheeks 'pick up' within the past seven months of having braces. I have Damon's and they advertise as a 'brace lift'. I wouldn't go for them just for that reason solely as it is just advertising but I have personally seen slight differences in my facial shape and we haven't even gotten to changing my bite. My overbite is not as bad as yours but I had a small one which should improve. You should see if there are orthos in your area for free consults. Sorry I'm not more helpful. Good luck!

#4 Post by **fosterp** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:13 pm

I'm not saying he needed to lose weight, im just saying you could achieve the same effect by doing so.

Getting full orthodontic treatment will change your facial aesthetics. The change is very subtle, but its definitely there.

I honestly didn't realize the changes until I was finally finished with treatment.

#5 Post by **subterfuge** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:44 am

thanks for everyone replies by the way.

I've been thinking about this so much that my brain feels fried.

Worst thing is that i'm yet to even see an orthodontist which seem like an obvious first step.

I get the feeling that even though I think the best solution would be surgery/orthagnathics,
that I would benefit somewhat from pallet expansion and damon braces (clear ones ideally?)

Would I mention any of this to an ortho?
I've never seen one, but I know that Doctors here in the UK seem to get annoyed when I mention
what i've read on the internet etc!

#6 Post by **djspeece** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:39 am

I would probably have the consultation and explain in detail your desired end result, and rather than pointing out specific approaches, let the ortho give you his/her take on options, risks, and potential benefits. I am accustomed as a nurse to my friends diagnosing themselves on the web and it can be comical. If for some reason the ortho did not cover an surgical options, then of course broach the subject since it is an obvious discussion point. If possible a second opinion might be a good investment as well.
It's similar (perhaps) to when you have a car that is reluctant to start or cranks hard. Rather than telling the mechanic you think you need a new starter, instead simply describe the symptoms and let them run through the algorithm to find the correct fix.
Best of luck to you!

#7 Post by **subterfuge** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:37 am

[quote="djspeece"]I would probably have the consultation and explain in detail your desired end result, and rather than pointing out specific approaches, let the ortho give you his/her take on options, risks, and potential benefits. I am accustomed as a nurse to my friends diagnosing themselves on the web and it can be comical. If for some reason the ortho did not cover an surgical options, then of course broach the subject since it is an obvious discussion point. If possible a second opinion might be a good investment as well.
It's similar (perhaps) to when you have a car that is reluctant to start or cranks hard. Rather than telling the mechanic you think you need a new starter, instead simply describe the symptoms and let them run through the algorithm to find the correct fix.
Best of luck to you![/quote]

You're right.
Although, i'm not certain how i'd even describe my symptoms without making assumptions?
For example, I guess my main symptoms would be that I think my jaws a recessed and narrow with
a deep bite?? (But then, even though i'm sure that's the case, i've never been told
this by a professional, so i'm not certain!) which is negatively affecting my appearance.

Would I say that and leave it there, and then just let him do his stuff?

#8 Post by **djspeece** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:23 pm

I wouldn't worry too much about that aspect. Don't overthink this

. Just tell the ortho what you see, how you feel, and what how you want to end up. You'll do fine.

#9 Post by **subterfuge** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:55 am

Thanks.
I've managed to find an orthodontist who is quite local who does free consultations.
Have an appointment booked for next month.

Not sure what I want to hear from him, really.
Maybe it will all become a little clearer after speaking to a professional.

I read some things on this forum of people trying to hide their flaws with the
use of chin implants/facelifts etc.
I understand that the view is that this is usually not wise?

I have a fairly deep sublabial fold. When I relax my face, my lips aren't QUITE touching.
I then have to strain the muscle in my chin to make them touch which makes the area looks
even shorted and more recessed. I've heard people here describe it as 'frog like'!

I also fail to understand how anything OTHER than surgery could have the effect of 'lifting up' the area around
my cheeks/jowel area, which I feel is not being supported properly. Some people have said that braces can
do this, but I just can't imagine it.

Anyway, excited to get the ball rolling at least.
I hope the ortho can look at things from an asthetics point of view.

#10 Post by **subterfuge** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:38 am

Been a month or so since my last post, and i've had my free consultation.
It was nice talking to an expert.
Fosterp was about right with his 'diagnosis'
Overbite with a unilateral crossbite.
Although he said that my jaws were not particularly narrow(I assumed they were)
I think he said that my lower jaw was slightly recessed, but not by much.

He said that he would refer me to someone else to discuss orthagnathic surgery though if I wanted him too.
I'm still undecided so said i'd let them know.

He said that braces would make my teeth nice and straight, and could fix my crossbite to a degree.
I'm assuming they would also correct my overbite to some degree, although I don't recall him mentioning that.

I think the overview was that I would benefit from surgery, but that it would be a very bold decision being that
my case is not very severe, and that i'd get some cosmetic improvement from braces alone.

I mentioned that i thought my teeth were a little rectroclined, and I think he agreed.
I can't remember whether he said that was something that could also be fixed by braces alone.
Anyone know?

Not sure where that leaves me, but i'm glad I went as it was nice to finally talk to someone.

#11 Post by **subterfuge** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:53 am

#12 Post by **Chicken** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:03 am

Have you made a decision yet? tried to check out your pics but I guess they are no longer there. Good luck with your decision.

#13 Post by **subterfuge** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:58 pm

[quote="Chicken"]Have you made a decision yet? tried to check out your pics but I guess they are no longer there. Good luck with your decision. :)[/quote]

They were supposed to get back to me with prices and stuff, but they didn't bother. (not very professional?)

I'm also a little annoyed that I didn't take the orthodontist up on her offer of referring me to an orthognathic surgeon. Would have been
nice to speak to them in hindsight.

I still feel as though I don't understand enough yet, and so im looking into book another free consultation with someone else who is offering them near to where I live.

I just can't imagine getting anything other than straight teeth with braces alone, but the issues i'm more concerned about are
the retroclined nature of my teeth. And the fact that the deep bite makes my face look short/slightly chubby.
I feel as though think I need surgery

Corners of my mouth turn down when I'm relaxed, and people always ask me if i'm OK as they think I look upset!
I have to slightly strain to make my lips meet, which in turn makes my face look very short.

#14 Post by **Featheryy1221** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:13 pm

I would get another opinion just to see what all your options are. My lips don't close properly either since I have an overjet as well. And I had a narrow upper jaw when I started my journey. Did they tell you what class bite you have? From my understanding since I was a class 1 bite, I didn't need surgery and I just got a palatal expander instead. Which that doesn't always work on everyone since some people's jaws are already fused. But anyway, Go to as many orthodontists until you find a plan and ortho you like. If surgery's what you feel is best, try looking for surgeons in your area. Good luck!

#15 Post by **subterfuge** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:23 am

[quote="Featheryy1221"]I would get another opinion just to see what all your options are. My lips don't close properly either since I have an overjet as well. And I had a narrow upper jaw when I started my journey. Did they tell you what class bite you have? From my understanding since I was a class 1 bite, I didn't need surgery and I just got a palatal expander instead. Which that doesn't always work on everyone since some people's jaws are already fused. But anyway, Go to as many orthodontists until you find a plan and ortho you like. If surgery's what you feel is best, try looking for surgeons in your area. Good luck! :)[/quote]

Yeah, I think you're right.
I emailed another ortho yesterday, requesting a free consultation.
I don't think they told me what class bit I have.
I thought my jaw was narrow too, but the ortho didn't seem to think that was the case.
Can braces tip the teeth forward somehow?

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